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Old 07-19-2018, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,172 posts, read 11,774,111 times
Reputation: 32173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
There's that, too. I'd be "too expensive." I'm not, for a variety of reasons, which I was happy to discuss when asked.
The problem is getting in the door to be asked. I'm guessing that you were mostly eliminated based on the assumption you'd be too expensive. Unless you were somehow addressing the issue up front in your cover letter with some kind of explanation on why you were interested in a position that - on paper - appeared to be lower level than one would expect for a person with your background and experience.

I'm glad you found something but I do have to say that the "amusing little position" rubbed me the wrong way too, although I was operating on the assumption that the ta-tas reference was some kind of joke that was hopefully not coming across in interactions with potential employers or co-workers.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:02 AM
 
2,243 posts, read 940,922 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
The problem is getting in the door to be asked. I'm guessing that you were mostly eliminated based on the assumption you'd be too expensive. Unless you were somehow addressing the issue up front in your cover letter with some kind of explanation on why you were interested in a position that - on paper - appeared to be lower level than one would expect for a person with your background and experience.

I'm glad you found something but I do have to say that the "amusing little position" rubbed me the wrong way too, although I was operating on the assumption that the ta-tas reference was some kind of joke that was hopefully not coming across in interactions with potential employers or co-workers.
It came across as very condescending to me. OP blamed his lack of employment attainment on his age, price tag, and lack of boobs.

I can appreciate the age discrimination argument, as I'm well aware that it exists in many industries and organizations. But if you are arguing that you're losing out on job opportunities because you lack a cute, female face and large boobs, then I don't buy it. I think it's very rare that an employer or hiring manager is going to pass on someone who can help their business for someone who is merely pleasant to look at.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:09 PM
 
20,902 posts, read 39,174,026 times
Reputation: 19187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
.... snip... I think it's very rare that an employer or hiring manager is going to pass on someone who can help their business for someone who is merely pleasant to look at.
I hope you're right. I know this happened to me back in the 1990s when I worked for the Army as a civilian. I kept trying to get a transportation job in the Defense Fuel Supply Center (DFSC) and interviewed with a middle aged single white male a least five times as vacancies were filled in that center. All five of my turndown letters from DFSC referenced the names of those who were selected .... all female. I later found out that this hiring official was known as a harem builder. I was mid-late 40s those years. My transportation credentials were impeccable. My peers and I delivered Desert Storm; 570 shiploads, 945,000 pieces of military equipment, over half a million troops, several million tons of munitions -- flowed it smoothly into the combat theater. And made it look easy.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:17 PM
 
2,243 posts, read 940,922 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
I hope you're right. I know this happened to me back in the 1990s when I worked for the Army as a civilian. I kept trying to get a transportation job in the Defense Fuel Supply Center (DFSC) and interviewed with a middle aged single white male a least five times as vacancies were filled in that center. All five of my turndown letters from DFSC referenced the names of those who were selected .... all female. I later found out that this hiring official was known as a harem builder. I was mid-late 40s those years. My transportation credentials were impeccable. My peers and I delivered Desert Storm; 570 shiploads, 945,000 pieces of military equipment, over half a million troops, several million tons of munitions -- flowed it smoothly into the combat theater. And made it look easy.
Not to say it doesn’t happen. I’m very well aware of the politics at play in certain organizations, as I recently left a job because of rampant cronyism. I just think that any reasonable hiring manager would want someone who is going to make the business better, not just the office aesthetics. In 200 applications, I find it hard to believe that the majority of those decisions were made in favor of the ‘ta-tas’.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:23 PM
 
20,902 posts, read 39,174,026 times
Reputation: 19187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
....In 200 applications, I find it hard to believe that the majority of those decisions were made in favor of the ‘ta-tas’.
Agree, for sure. Me thinks the OP is overstating the case. Where were all these great ta-tas 50 years ago when I was young and single....
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:30 PM
 
5,423 posts, read 2,822,310 times
Reputation: 10139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
Not to say it doesn’t happen. I’m very well aware of the politics at play in certain organizations, as I recently left a job because of rampant cronyism. I just think that any reasonable hiring manager would want someone who is going to make the business better, not just the office aesthetics. In 200 applications, I find it hard to believe that the majority of those decisions were made in favor of the ‘ta-tas’.
I agree. In only a few of the OP’s msgs, a certain attitude shows, one of condescension, of assuming that s long career guarantees beating out less-experienced competition. Maybe his cover letter contains similar hints.

When an acquaintance got laid off, much to his total surprise (he assumed the company would keep older, white males with high salaries and perks regardless of financial pressures on the employer), he was baffled as to why he got no interest in his job searching. Then he got desperate and applied for a job that was “low paying” at $40k/yr. Well, at that time (about 2008 or 2009) many other people would have been delighted to get such a salary. He, on the other hand, considered it equivalent to minimum wage. The guy had no clue how non-affluent people lived.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:46 PM
 
2,243 posts, read 940,922 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikabike View Post
I agree. In only a few of the OP’s msgs, a certain attitude shows, one of condescension, of assuming that s long career guarantees beating out less-experienced competition. Maybe his cover letter contains similar hints.

When an acquaintance got laid off, much to his total surprise (he assumed the company would keep older, white males with high salaries and perks regardless of financial pressures on the employer), he was baffled as to why he got no interest in his job searching. Then he got desperate and applied for a job that was “low paying” at $40k/yr. Well, at that time (about 2008 or 2009) many other people would have been delighted to get such a salary. He, on the other hand, considered it equivalent to minimum wage. The guy had no clue how non-affluent people lived.
Right. And I'm not saying OP is a negative guy, or bad employee. I tend to like his take on things for the mere fact that he's not just another prideful 'Native' or long time resident spouting off the usual pro-Denver hyperbole.

I realize he's had a tough go at it here, and probably found himself rudely awakened by the many obstacles that impact working class people in this metro, a couple of those being the high COL and competitive job market. I hope that he takes my observation as useful criticism, as perhaps his attitude may have been part of what was holding him back without him realizing how he was coming across. One useful lesson I've learned over the years is that, regardless of how you feel about something (particularly cynical or jaded feelings), put on your best face and only share those feelings with your closest allies and forums like this. We're all just playing a game called 'Get Along', and the better you are at not rubbing people the wrong way, whether you're right or wrong, the further you will go in the vast majority of cases.

Last edited by Left-handed; 07-19-2018 at 12:56 PM..
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,596 posts, read 3,026,483 times
Reputation: 12834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
It came across as very condescending to me. OP blamed his lack of employment attainment on his age, price tag, and lack of boobs.
No, just age, which is both real and a multi-pronged fork against hiring in many fields.

My "price tag" was entirely in the minds of anyone reviewing the applications, since I either did not state salary requirements or (when required) put in modest-range figures.

That the field tends to hire young players is not new nor news. That I was tongue-in-cheek about "ta-tas" amused some and offended others. Next time, I will use HR-manual language (I've written several) about hiring bias, or, what the hell, go right for crass vulgarity instead of trying to be amusing.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Denver
1,303 posts, read 434,812 times
Reputation: 1239
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikabike View Post
Then he got desperate and applied for a job that was “low paying” at $40k/yr. Well, at that time (about 2008 or 2009) many other people would have been delighted to get such a salary. He, on the other hand, considered it equivalent to minimum wage. The guy had no clue how non-affluent people lived.
I get economic times were different then, but $40k is pretty low paying for a white-collared employee, especially with a number of years of experience. It isn't necessarily an "affluent" vs non "affluent" thing. $40k might not cover his mortgage and feed 4 mouths even if he cut all his unnecessary expenses. That's why when people get paid off/fired, they don't just take the first job they can get. If it doesn't pay enough, they're better off taking unemployment and searching for something that does, than taking a low paying job and losing out on UI benefits and the time to search for something new.
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:47 PM
 
5,423 posts, read 2,822,310 times
Reputation: 10139
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisphotographer View Post
I get economic times were different then, but $40k is pretty low paying for a white-collared employee, especially with a number of years of experience. It isn't necessarily an "affluent" vs non "affluent" thing. $40k might not cover his mortgage and feed 4 mouths even if he cut all his unnecessary expenses. That's why when people get paid off/fired, they don't just take the first job they can get. If it doesn't pay enough, they're better off taking unemployment and searching for something that does, than taking a low paying job and losing out on UI benefits and the time to search for something new.
My point was that he thought he was a shoo-in because his salary had been so much higher than this job. If it was such crap pay to him, he should not even have bothered applying. And it sure wasn’t the first job he applied for; it was his scraping-the-barrel choice that he figured he would easily nab. Rude awakening...

Reality was that his old employer OVERPAID him.
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