Looking for advice on adding an Evaporative Cooler to home with Hydronic Baseboard Heat (Denver: environment)

[denverhomeowner]

Hello,
I'm currently considering buying a home in SE Denver that has hydronic baseboard heating with no existing ductwork that I'm aware of. The home is two levels + basement (totaling about 3800 sf). I'm looking for advice on how to cool this type of home. I know there is an attic fan but I have to assume that won't do the job. I have a young child and I definitely want to make sure that we are comfortable during the hottest point of the summer. It appears that my 2 options are installing an evaporative cooler or possibly mini-split ductless AC. Anybody have an opinion on either? Will a swamp cooler be effective?

Thank you!

[Katiana]

Swamp coolers work well, IMO. Our first apt in Denver had one. Back in 1980, we were one of the few families with any kind of cooling system. We would have installed one on this house, but it seemed like a lot of work. We put in a large room A/C instead, which keeps the parts of the house we use most (kitchen, family room) cool.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by denverhomeowner

Will a swamp cooler be effective?

Swamp coolers will be effective if it isn't humid which it isn't too much in Colorado. Sometimes there are monsoonal events which draw humid air but I haven't lived in Colorado long enough to have a feel for them.

What about one or two rooms cooled locally for the hottest days and ceiling fans for the rest of the time? A central air system installation is pretty expensive (depending on existing configuration), even a swamp cooler might be expensive if an installer has to do any significant reconfiguration. I think one of the reasons swamp coolers are popular is because they don't use too much electricity, just maybe a 1/3 horsepower (250 watts) motor. Central air is something like 1200 watts per ton at a 10 SEER so a three or four ton AC is 4000 to 5000 watts and at say $0.12 per kilowatt hour that's like $0.50 to $0.60 cents an hour. Many if not most AC units are lower SEER (use less electricity) but typically lower SEER units are more expensive.

Ceiling fans work great.

[Mikieo415]

higher seer units use less electricity

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Mikieo415

higher seer units use less electricity

Yep...You're correct....I wrote it backwards...High SEER means more efficient and those units usually cost more.

[denver_hacker]

Heh - I live in a house in SE Denver with baseboard hydronic heat, a swamp cooler, and two attic fans. Although mine's a ranch - no second story to catch rising heat. We do have very wide eaves, which creates nice shade for the house.

The swamp cooler works unbelievably well in this climate - you really cannot beat it. Even during the near 100 stretches we get in August, the swamp cooler keeps things really nice and cool. I'm really amazed that they aren't more popular with newer houses considering how effective, for both cost and functional, they are.

My problem is that the swamp cooler supplies a single vent to the family room, so the immediately connected rooms do OK but the rest of the house doesn't get a benefit. This has more to do with how the house was built and the addition then the swamp cooler itself.

The attic fans work great at night when things cool down outside. We switch them on for a bit and suck in the cool air. On really hot nights it only kind of works. They are, however, very *loud*.

Neither of these approaches would work in a more humid climate.

I have to say that the heating system took me a while to get used to. There's no rapid heat increase and decrease like with a forced air system. And there's not source of hot air blowing in on you, so I found myself constantly checking the thermostat to gauge the temp in the house. You hear the pipes ping and expand while the hot water first goes through the system. This will happen a lot when it's warm out during the day but cold at night.

It's also kind of weird to think that you have scalding hot water pulsing around your walls. The pipes on my house are 50+ years old and look it, but they work! I supposed you could worry about kids running a truck/car/big wheel/whatever into one of the baseboards and cracking it, but they're pretty well protected.

There's also no air exchange with the system, so you don't cycle the air in the house. This is good from the perspective that you have a lot less dust and dander flying around the air, but new air doesn't get in.

One issue with hydronic you should know is that you can't schedule the temps you want. I was used to a programmable thermostat where during the night it'd go down to 67, then in the morning up to 71, then during the day back down, and then in the evening back up to 71. You can't do that with hydronics, the temp has to stay the same all the time. Because water holds its temp so well, if the temp drops down you need to expend more energy just getting it back up then just maintaining it.

It also took us a bit to find a decent company to service the hydronic system as well. Most every plumbing shop will say they can work on it, but we found that guys would come out and immediately call someone else and talk things through over the phone. Bell Plumbing seems to have very experienced guys with the system, although they do tend to charge more than others. The last guy Bell sent out was in his 50s and has been working with hydronic systems in Denver for the last 30 years - exactly the kind of guy I want servicing the system.

[co998]

swamp coolers rule!

[kevin_in_Denver]

Not only are swamp coolers cheap to run, they can cost only a fraction of central AC.

There are folks out there who would try to talk you out of them, but they must have had one that was installed wrong.

The basement won't need any cooling.

Keep your eye on minisplits, they keep getting cheaper and more efficient.

[denverian]

I have neighbors who installed a swamp cooler on their house when it was new, and it works great. I don't know why it wasn't an option through the builder. I like that it adds a little humidity to the house too. I guess the main drawback is that you have to put them on the roof, apparently. My neighbors have to get up there (two stories) and place a cover over it in the Fall, and then uncover it in Spring.

[kevin_in_Denver]

Climbing on the roof twice a year is a great deterrent.

Here's a quote from the blog greenbuildingindenver

"Builders need training and encouragement to use evaporative cooling.

One of the best green builders in the state has told me that he’s afraid to introduce water vapor into a home for warranty reasons. Even though that’s overreacting, a local company, Coolerado, has already solved that problem.

Another reason swamp coolers aren’t used is because they aren’t supported by national HVAC suppliers like Lennox.

Low first cost, and low operating cost. This happy concurrence is rare in mechanical appliances. Sam’s Club price for a 4000cfm unit is under $400.

Many of us Coloradoans with dry sinuses prefer the extra moisture all summer.

Contributes to Global Cooling. On hot days, incoming air is 80F-100F, but the exhaust air is vented from the house at 75F. Conventional A/C units dump huge amounts of hot air into the neighborhood. That’s roughly three times less waste heat into the environment.

To reduce maintenance headaches, they CAN be installed inside, in a vented basement mechanical room. (CAVEAT – this mechanical room MUST have only direct vent gas appliances).

Barometric vent dampers will reduce window management. These dampers are simple, but not readily available yet."