I HATE this weather! (Denver, Center: tornadoes, house, university)

[tfox]

Originally Posted by LBear

4 - The potential for tornadoes, blizzards, extreme heat (100F+), extreme cold (-45F), extreme drought, extreme amounts of rain and snow, winds (50-100MPH gusts), hail, etc. are all possible and occur on a yearly basis within the Denver and metro areas.

LBear, you can't on one hand complain about posters putting up lies and then on the very next post do the same yourself. I'm quite sure that this quoted statement of yours is false. Let's put it kindly and call it "exaggeration." Some examples: Denver has never hit -45 in its history, and last winter, according to wunderground, the temperature never even hit zero. As for tornadoes, the last tornado to hit Denver was in 1993; that's 15 years ago.

I can only assume you're talking about all-time records when you post such numbers, but you're portraying such events as occuring each and every year. That's demonstratably false.

[MobyLL]

LBear, so you hate the weather in Denver and will be moving to, where was it, Arizona -- Phoenix?? You are right in that Denver's weather is not for everyone, but that is a good thing. If Denver had weather like So California, it would probably have a population like Southern California. And if it had weather like Phoenix, it would have a population like Phoenix. I don't have a problem with big cities per se, like NYC, Paris, London, Tokyo where people can live good lives in a dense setting and thereby saving more land for agriculture, open space and recreation... but So Cal and Phoenix obviously do not fit that mold.

One of the fortunate things about Denver is that it had enough development early in its history to have formed a solid center with good housing stock (Denver was the second largest city in the west, after San Francisco, in 1900). Denver is also fortunate that it has weather that is off-putting enough that Denver has avoided the explosive sprawl that has engulfed Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, South Florida and Phoenix. Denver has plenty of sprawl, no doubt, but half as much as Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. And in my opinion Denver still has an opportunity to develop in a way that is far better than those other cities in terms of use of resources of the planet and community building where people genuinely feel that they belong to a neighborhood or community as opposed to being isolated/insulated in a big house where you wave occasionally to a neighbor if you happen to pull out of your respective 3 car garages at the same time.

I think that Phoenix (and Atlanta, Dallas, etc.) have the potential to improve and become better places to live. But, because of their growth history and damage already done, there is a lot further to go than Denver. Here is a link to a good article on the effect of growth on Phoenix and the urban heat island effect:
More people, more concrete, and lots more heat in Phoenix | csmonitor.com

A couple of quotes from the article:

This summer is hot elsewhere, to be sure. But in few places can you fry an egg on a sidewalk as quickly and thoroughly as you can here. And you'd have to fry a lot of them: Experts say the main reason the number of 110-degree-or-higher days has risen so steadily – and steeply – is rapid growth. In the 1950s, for example, the temperature rose to 110 or higher an average of 6.7 days per year. In the 1960s it was 10.3 days per year; in the 1980s it was 19 days per year, and in the 2000s (through Aug. 21, 2007), 21.9 per year, according to the National Weather Service.

Every time you use that mechanical air conditioner, you're throwing hot air back into the environment," says Jay Golden, an expert on urban climate and energy at Arizona State University in Tempe. "It's not only the sun and the pavement, but we're generating more heat because of human adaptation." And that's where global warming comes in: The hotter it is, the more we need to cool off; and the more we try to cool off – with air conditioning, for instance – the more heat-trapping greenhouse gases and "waste energy" we create, feeding both phenomena.

The lows at night are rising, too. Three decades ago, the nighttime low here was about 30 degrees cooler than the days. Today, it is on average only 20 degrees cooler. That's because cities are slower to cool off at night, retaining their heat in roads and buildings.

You don't like Denver's weather, that is good. You like the weather in Phoenix, also good. I like the people and vibe in Denver... I like the fact that many, perhaps most, people here can go outside and enjoy the snow and cold temperatures without whining about it. I read recently about a book called "The Big Sort". Not a good thing socially overall, but obviously it is happening climatically as well as idealogically.

[LBear]

Originally Posted by tfox

LBear, you can't on one hand complain about posters putting up lies and then on the very next post do the same yourself.

First off, I am not exaggerating nor giving false imformation. Why are Denver people so hostile? That is reason #2 for leaving Denver.

The temp of -45F was WITH WINDCHILL.

The highest recorded temperature was 105°F in 2005.
The lowest recorded temperature was -25°F in 1990. Add windchill to that temp and that is where the -45F temp comes in. Plus, there are A LOT of days where it hit -20F in Denver's history. NOAA shows all of them.

Also, the record low WITH WINDCHILL was around -25F to -50F below zero. That is a FACT. On Feb 2, 2007, a warning was given that temps WITH WINDCHILL would get close to -50F.
CLICK HERE FOR PROOF

Also, not everyone lives in Denver proper. The surrounding metro area has even LOWER and HIGHER record temps.

Anything east of I-25 is considered TORNADO ALLEY. The fact is that Adams County has had 148 tornadoes since 1950. Weld County has had 227 tornadoes. As far as hail damage, Denver has taken the title of "hail capital" more than once. With hail storms causing millions in damage.

Here is a link to the FACTS of temps in Denver

CLICK HERE

So, my post was NOT filled with false information. I put up a link to prove it.

[tfox]

Originally Posted by LBear

First off, I am not exaggerating nor giving false imformation. Why are Denver people so hostile? That is reason #2 for leaving Denver.

Anyway, thanks for setting the record straight with actual numbers. Sorry if my post came off as a little strong, but you did your part and clarified what you meant by your remarks. In truth, the actual numbers will prove your point amply that Denver has some crazy weather, so there's really no need to amplify. The numbers do speak for themselves.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by LBear

As far as hail damage, Denver has taken the title of "hail capital" more than once. With hail storms causing millions in damage.

I have some friends in Denver who run a roofing company. We had one big storm here in the 719 that required one of them to come spend about 3 months with us down here.

Like they say, if they throw you lemons, make lemonade.

I like what MobyLL had to say. I tried to rep him but couldn't until I spread it around.

The Greater Phoenix metro area has about as many or more people in it as there is in the whole 108,000+ square miles of the state that is Colorado.

Population density of Wyoming? Even better. Montana, best. Colorado bad. Everywhere else good. Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[steveindenver]

The highest recorded temperature was 105°F in 2005.

I broke a chain that day 25 miles from home, no cell phone, no change. One hell of a walk back. Fun times.

That said, I-25 is hardly a good measure of tornado alley ...

[LBear]

Originally Posted by tfox

Anyway, thanks for setting the record straight with actual numbers. Sorry if my post came off as a little strong, but you did your part and clarified what you meant by your remarks. In truth, the actual numbers will prove your point amply that Denver has some crazy weather, so there's really no need to amplify. The numbers do speak for themselves.

Thank you, no hard feelings.

It is not a "common" winter daily occurrence to have -20F or -45F wind chills in Denver but it does happen & has happened numerous times in its history.

Here is a HIGH WIND WARNING to Denver residence by Colorado's governor, warning residents that, especially in winter, high winds are common and dangerous:
CLICK HERE

"THE RESULT CAN BE A CASCADE OF HIGH WINDS FROM THE WEST OR NORTHWEST INTO THE ADJACENT PLAINS AT SPEEDS OVER 100 MPH. "

In regards to the -25F temperature. The windchill effect is very important. A temperature of -5F occurring with a 20MPH wind, gives a wind chill of -30F. This means that your body will lose heat at the same rates as it would be if the air temperature were -30F with NO wind. So, in the end, -5F with a 20MPH wind is TRULY a -30F temperature. That is why I posted a -45F temp.

In ACTUALITY, it was closer to -50F with the windchill back in 2007.

CLICK HERE FOR A NOAA WIND CHILL CHART

Per Wikipedia, it states for Denver:

"The climate, while generally mild compared to the mountains to the west and the plains further east, can be very unpredictable. Measurable amounts of snow have fallen in the Denver area as late as early June and as early as September."

Below is the record high/low for each month. The lows are WITHOUT wind chill. You can add another -20F PLUS to the temperature with a 20MPH winds. This just shows how extreme the weather can be:

Month High Low
Jan 74 -29
Feb 77 -25
Mar 84 -11
Apr 90 -2
May 95 19
Jun 104 30
Jul 105 42
Aug 105 40
Sep 97 17
Oct 90 -2
Nov 80 -18
Dec 79 -25

In the end, that is my point. While Denver can be on average more "mild" than the east coast and mid west cities, Denver has extremes also. While the -20F does not last long, it can and does hit those temperatures. The weather is erratic and extreme. You have ALL extremes; heat, cold, wind, snow, rain, lightening, hail, tornadoes, etc.

[Charles]

"...it's not that bad" from
Stop crying about Chicago weather!!!(Rant)

"...Its not that big of a deal" from
Weather in Rochester, NY

"...it doesn't look bad" from
Feb. snow in Buffalo???

"...DC winters aren't really that bad", "...winter is mild and balmy..." from
DC Weather

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by jkcoop

I agree

I love the weather here and it's never really stopped us from doing what we want to do. Even our backcountry camping - those times it's rained on us we just hunker down in our tent and play cards.

This one time we were camping up by West Chicago Creek and it was a constant nasty drizzle. Then, all of a sudden it started to hail. But it was like nice little dry hail.

Once it started hailing, we were able to go out and throw horse shoes and stuff because it was drier than the rain.

Speaking of camping (cause' I'm sick of arguing about this weather, anybody else?) I was a born camper. When I was 1 and 2 years old my only memories were of us camping. I used to say (so they tell me), "Let's go home". Home was the back of the station wagon. Then as I got older, I wasn't happy unless we were camping. We lived in this awful place (IMO) called the San Fernando Valley and all I wanted to do was get out of that concrete jungle. I used to like to wake up in my tent and look out the little zippered window thingy and see trees and forest.

So we moved to Southern Colorado and it's like camping year round!

[denverian]

Originally Posted by tfox

LBear, you can't on one hand complain about posters putting up lies and then on the very next post do the same yourself. I'm quite sure that this quoted statement of yours is false. Let's put it kindly and call it "exaggeration." Some examples: Denver has never hit -45 in its history, and last winter, according to wunderground, the temperature never even hit zero. As for tornadoes, the last tornado to hit Denver was in 1993; that's 15 years ago.

I can only assume you're talking about all-time records when you post such numbers, but you're portraying such events as occuring each and every year. That's demonstratably false.

I'll second that. -45???? Not hardly! The coldest my house got last winter was 3, on two occassions. In the past three winters, -8 was the coldest on one or two occassions. And most summers only hit 100 2 or 3 times. Tornadoes aren't an issue in Denver itself.