Looking to rebuild in Washington Park (Denver, Fort Collins: house, rent, lease)

[katiereaney]

We are in Fort Collins and are looking to buy a fixer upper in Washington Park. We want to rebuild but have no idea where to start. Has anyone been through this that can offer any advice on what builders to use, how long it takes, is it worth it, etc etc?
Also we aren't looking to flip it this is going to be a long term investment and plan to be in the Wash Park area for a long time. We have 2 school age children, so are the schools in this area decent? I don't think that private schools are in the game plan, so it would have to be public.
Thanks so much!

[tfox]

I'm not clear if you mean scrape or just a major remodel/addition. Either way, be warned that this is a long and difficult process for a novice. What well-connected developers are able to do may be far different than what you should do. I am not aware of particular builders, so I can't help you there. When you do find a builder who is experienced with building homes in Wash Park, I'd have your builder and you do due diligence on whether or not you'd be able to scrape the place, whether or not it's a landmark or in a landmark district (in which case you won't be able to scrape or do any exterior modification), if any variances in height, setbacks, etc will be required for your new home (variances are routinely given but are far from guarunteed).

As for whether it's worth it: it may ultimately be cheaper than buying a "spec" scrape in Wash Park, since you're shouldering some of the risk and pain by doing it. Have you checked out the price for a scrape in Wash Park? They are astronomically expensive. I personally think that better than either option is an updated home in Wash Park that's not a scrape. But, apparently the market disagrees -- many buyers will value a scrape at far higher value than an otherwise equivalent updated historic home.

As for schools, Wash Park's are relatively good for DPS. Most of Central/South/Southeast Denver is IMO on par with a good suburban district, despite what you hear about DPS problems. Steele is arguably the best elementary in the neighborhood, but none of those in the vicinity could be considered bad. As always, however, you need to check with the school and make sure it's right for your kids.

As you get your kids toward high school, many DPS parents at that time start considering other options like private schools, charter schools or exercising open-enrollment. South High is actually pretty good IMO, but there may be better options for your kids. As a note, South High's CSAP scores are unfairly hurt because South is the designated school for intensive English programs for recent immigrants from non-spanish-speaking countries. Such students are forced to take CSAPS, even if they only know Cambodian (for example). Naturally, such students score minimum scores on the CSAPs, making a noticable hit on the school's average.

[preppyglam]

my friend loves wash park and wants to move back. from what she has told me- its a charming neighborhood/area with historic and/or architecturally interesting homes. please, please, please dont raze a house if it fits that description. Luckily, if its a historic home, you wont be able to do much and you will have strict guidelines for renovation (thank goodness for those historical socities. and i mean it, they do a great work). work with the architecture, style and charm of the home to make it truly outstanding.

A few tips- find an architect that works with wash park homes. They will save you money since they know the wash park building department requirements (less permit research time = less billable hours to you, their client). A good architect will work with the house and improve upon whats already there.

Find a really good interior designer. I know CO only has a permiting statute for interior designers (which means anyone who wants to- regardless of education and experience- can call themselves an "interior designer")- but look for one with a classic education in interior design, solid referrals and a working knowledge of building systems. They, too, will work with the house and blow you away with their historical knowledge and infuse the home with stylistic integrity. And if you cant find a local desinger you really like, wait for me to get there and you can hire me.

Good luck in wash park- I can't wait to visit that area!

[preppyglam]

about the costs/timeline for building- i know the cost of custom-grade residential construction here in CA is about $300/sq.ft. (+/-, but thats the "average"). you can start asking around (local builders, people that have built custom in the denver metro area) to get an idea of the average per sq.ft. cost. This number usually depends on the level of design you want (meaning, lots of attention to detail, custom cabinetry v. "builder basic modules", moudlings, etc.) will determine how much you pay per square foot. And how much you pay per sq.ft. will determine how much it will cost you to build the place (usually does not count professional architecture and design fees).

Take your budget and timeline and add, add, add to it. Remember its more cost-effective to do things they way you want, in the materials you want, etc. the first time around. Remember also, that every change you make or every decision that you drag on making will set the timeline for completion further and further back. I cant tell you how often clinets shoot holes in their budget and schedule by changing their minds or being ultra indecisive. Decide what you want, and go for it.

Try not to make major changes once the project has started, and try to make as few minor changes to plans and finishes as possible along the way (change orders = extra money!). Again, I know I sound partial (design is my profession, after all), but seriously consider a real interior designer (not a housewife who thinks she can be a designer since she successfully faux painted her powder bath and watches tons of HGTV). In addition to interior elements, designers can perform project management and contract administration for you, help keep you focused and help you choose whats right for your project.

Most people think they have good taste- but in reality, most people need a little bit of help making everything coordinate and gel. Why spend so much money building your castle when things will end up looking a little bit off or builder-basic in the end? You should never let your builder make design decisions. MANY a builder will argue that with me. But hey, whatever- I didn't spend 5 years in design school for nothin' and I dont tell them how to do their job- they shouldnt be trying to do mine! Builders will also provide/substitute materials to make the project come in cheaper for them (i.e. more profit). An architect can specify building materials and a designer can specify interior finishes and specifically state that there are to be no substitutions to what they call out for your project. Things you maybe havent even thought of before- like recessed lighting fixture types, doors, all the hardware in the house....all the little things that accent the big picture.

Since this is for the long term, dont worry about resale. Do what makes you and the house happy and do what will function for you down the road. Chances are, when someone buys it 30 years from now- they will want to update your update.

If you want more info, feel free to email me or respond here. I am happy to help!

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by tfox

I'd have your builder and you do due diligence on whether or not you'd be able to scrape the place, whether or not it's a landmark or in a landmark district (in which case you won't be able to scrape or do any exterior modification), if any variances in height, setbacks, etc will be required for your new home (variances are routinely given but are far from guarunteed).

Yes.
Washington Park is indeed a registered Historic District.
Also, for better or for worse, this neighborhood was basically the birthplace of Denver's poptops. Redevelopment began there back in the '80's.
The neighborhood associations for both east and west Wash Park are forewarned and forearmed.
Any kind of fixer-upper will be most tediously scrutinized before receiving approval.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate

Yes.
Washington Park is indeed a registered Historic District.
Also, for better or for worse, this neighborhood was basically the birthplace of Denver's poptops. Redevelopment began there back in the '80's.
The neighborhood associations for both east and west Wash Park are forewarned and forearmed.
Any kind of fixer-upper will be most tediously scrutinized before receiving approval.

That is a good thing, I think. It's a lovely neighborhood. My DD lives farther south and I don't like all the scrapes, etc in the vicinity. I mean, I'm not a "preservation at any price" person, but keep it in harmony with the rest of the homes.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by Katiana

That is a good thing, I think. It's a lovely neighborhood. My DD lives farther south and I don't like all the scrapes, etc in the vicinity. I mean, I'm not a "preservation at any price" person, but keep it in harmony with the rest of the homes.

Yes, certainly it is a lovely neighborhood, and it's understandable that most inhabitants would like to retain its distinctive character. Of course it is important that WP and every other Denver neighborhood forestall inappropriate renovations--before WP became a Historic District, some monstrosities did get in.
OTOH
Once a neighborhood receives this designation, anybody who wants to do anything had better be prepared to deal with the irksome process.
After our central Denver neighborhood became a Historic District, I watched as sincere people who earnestly tried to come up with acceptable plans were turned down again and again by micromanaging bureaucrats--one couple who had been on our block for 10 years, expecting their second child, hoped to add on to their house, paid their architect thousands of dollars extra; their plans were repeatedly turned down over the tiniest details.
It's good to preserve architectural style and historical craftsmanship.
It's also good to know in advance what this may entail.

[Katiana]

I agree. This kind of stuff happens in Boulder as well. People aren't allowed to put in energy-saving features, such as double pane windows, because they aren't "historically accurate". And so on. (If they own a home in a historic district)

[dj32]

Yes the design district is strict- which is a GOOD thing however definitely not a strict as Country Club distrct- things that are monstrous are still getting, how they get past the 25% open space requirement is beyond me. We built 4 years ago and our yard is vastly larger than most of the newer builds.

Also, I think most developers are doing a nice job of keeping with the "craftsman" look but you'll definitely see some funky moderns and "faux mediterraneans" which are just hideous IMO> I love modern design but it definitely looks a bit odd.

If you have questions about Wash Park and building process please PM me. Development is definitely going on,I actually am amazed by the building still going on. YOu'll have to really have a good realtor if you are goign to buy a scrape, someone who knows the market and watches it like a hawk as the developers seem to be getting all the good lots before they never hit the market.

There is a builder (PM me for the name) and they have a unique program going on where they can do a custom home for you using one of their lots. It is cheaper than going the spec home route directly from a developer and they are known to do great work.

[Biopace]

We are in the process of adding a 2nd story to our house in Wash Park. Plans are done and we are moving forward with initial bids. We don't not know yet how much it will cost, but I can tell you that the price per sq/ft for the addition will likely be far less than the sq/ft price of homes around here ($350-400+ per sq/ft).

Also, of the 2 elementary schools that Wash Park feeds into, Steele is considered to be the better of the two.