Mass Transit to hit Denver (Castle Rock, Center: luxury, budget, travel)

[charygart]

oh wow...that sounds crazy, i thought all these park and rides will never get filled completely, but i guess you're right, i'm just totally missing the rush.

And wow, so i guess that person is just getting a totally opposite shift? returning at 8 am?

That's just a silly idea. What's the point of riding the bus if you have to pay parking. On of the main reason why I like the bus is because parking is free. If they decided to charge people (depending on how much), i'm sure they will see a decline in ridership. And all the parking area around the park and ride will get a huge influx of cars before they even open for business. that would be bad for the businesses around the park n ride.

[wanttomoveeast]

I was standing in line a few yrs. ago when 9 news was interviewing people about it. I think people made a lot of noise so they shelved the idea. It would irritate me to no end, I mean, I already have to drive to the freaking bus stop! Sorry, I moved from downtown where there was a few buses on every corner! I never drove. Now I have to drive everywhere!! : ( oh well.

Yes, I think that one guy was working the graveyard and I just lucked out.

You know, some Park and Rides, like the one my friend rides in Westminster, are much nicer and don't seem to be nearly as filled. Hers is this nice, covered garage with an elevator.

[charygart]

Well, i guess that's the price of living in the suburbs, everything is spread apart. But i do like driving, not for going to work, I like driving in the weekends just seeing stuff. You seems to be the person that would fit well in downtown. Why did u move? Yeah some of the newer ones are nicer and actually a building. Especially along I-25 south on the light rail route.

[livecontent]

One of the main reason for considering parking charges at Park and Rides were that the end of the line Park and Rides were at the border where the RTD boundary ended and people who were not in the district where getting something for which they were not a part. These end of line park and rides are especially crowded. There were many people, for example, who drove from far out in Douglas County as in Castle Rock and parked. Castle Rock is not part of RTD. It opted out of the district, a few years ago.

However, I think this was silly for RTD to consider charging parking because even if people drove here, they still paid to take the transit. Also, when people from Castle Rock purchase items in the RTD district, which they would certainly do, they would pay the RTD tax. In addition, this would have cost more in administration and enforcement which would have made the idea of more revenue questionable and certainly would have impacted ridership.

The real stupid people are the people of Castle Rock. They voted out of the district, to avoid paying the RTD sales tax in Castle Rock. However, they never considered that they would be paying RTD sales tax in other areas, when they traveled to Denver to shop; so they are paying but get no local benefit. In addition, people in Denver, when they went to the Outlet shops in Castle Rock, they would have paid most of the RTD tax, if CR was in the district; The outlets get more business from Denver Metro Residents than Castle Rock locals. I do not think that not having a RTD sales tax is a huge incentive for people to shop in the Outlet shops--most people do not know that it is not in the district.

Castle Rock hurt themselves because if they were in the district, they would have been considered for further stops on the Southwest Line. Now, that will never happen--a lost opportunity. Certainly, there would have been multiple express buses running, now, from Castle Rock to the Station in the Southern Suburbs of Denver, with easy transit to DTC and Downtown.

I really do not know what Castle Rock think they saved. They have a limited free bus system but it is not really free; it does cost to operate from the city budget and all people in Castle Rock pay this cost.

People of Castle Rock are "penny wise and dollar foolish."

Livecontent

[vegaspilgrim]

Agreed, livecontent. The problem with Castle Rock and other satelite suburbs like it is they want to pretend they are a stand alone town, not part of the Denver metro area, when they really are. The Nine-Mile park-n-ride and light rail station, the closest one to where I live, is extremely popular. In fact, a little bit too popular-- the entire garage often gets filled up, making the whole thing useless. Although the RTD district goes way beyond SE of the Nine Mile station-- all the way to Smoky Hill Rd & E470, and down to Parker.

I think what Denver really needs to complete its transit system, is not only lines covering the west, northwest, and north side of the metro area (which looks like it's part of fastracks), but an additional "inner loop" line through the core urban part of Denver. It would begin at the Union Station, take one of the NW-SE downtown streets (possibly 17th st) to Broadway/Lincoln, down Broadway/Lincoln until Speer, it should go along Speer (blow out a lane in each direction), 1st Ave, a station right in front of the Cherry Creek Mall, then Cherry Creek Dr north, down Colorado Blvd (possibly a subway system along this stretch) until it meets back with the existing light rail line at I-25. Of course I'm just dreaming; this will never happen. If it did though, Denver's mass transit would be twice as convenient and usable as it is now.

[yodi]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I think what Denver really needs to complete its transit system, is not only lines covering the west, northwest, and north side of the metro area (which looks like it's part of fastracks), but an additional "inner loop" line through the core urban part of Denver. It would begin at the Union Station, take one of the NW-SE downtown streets (possibly 17th st) to Broadway/Lincoln, down Broadway/Lincoln until Speer, it should go along Speer (blow out a lane in each direction), 1st Ave, a station right in front of the Cherry Creek Mall, then Cherry Creek Dr north, down Colorado Blvd (possibly a subway system along this stretch) until it meets back with the existing light rail line at I-25. Of course I'm just dreaming; this will never happen. If it did though, Denver's mass transit would be twice as convenient and usable as it is now.

I dream about this too. Someday maybe....

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

...I think what Denver really needs to complete its transit system, is not only lines covering the west, northwest, and north side of the metro area (which looks like it's part of fastracks), but an additional "inner loop" line through the core urban part of Denver. It would begin at the Union Station, take one of the NW-SE downtown streets (possibly 17th st) to Broadway/Lincoln, down Broadway/Lincoln until Speer, it should go along Speer (blow out a lane in each direction), 1st Ave, a station right in front of the Cherry Creek Mall, then Cherry Creek Dr north, down Colorado Blvd (possibly a subway system along this stretch) until it meets back with the existing light rail line at I-25. Of course I'm just dreaming; this will never happen. If it did though, Denver's mass transit would be twice as convenient and usable as it is now.

I do think that this will happen, as you are saying with an inner loop. I have seen some advanced projections for this type of expansion. That is why the inner city has light rail vs. heavy rail. Light Rail is better for close in services with multiple stops. While Heavy rail is not suited for a very dense urban environment because it is more efficient over longer distances with stops which are not close together. However, this further innner growth in Denver Mass Transit is well beyond my lifetime and maybe in about 75 years. At that time, I would hope that any type of individual motored personal vehicles will not be efficient and allowed within the dense core of the city.

Livecontent

[Katiana]

This thread is so interesting. Someone asked me over on General US if people in Denver used the public transportation system much. I think the answer is a resounding YES, according to what people are saying about full park n ride lots, full buses, etc.

[tfox]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I think what Denver really needs to complete its transit system, is not only lines covering the west, northwest, and north side of the metro area (which looks like it's part of fastracks), but an additional "inner loop" line through the core urban part of Denver. It would begin at the Union Station, take one of the NW-SE downtown streets (possibly 17th st) to Broadway/Lincoln, down Broadway/Lincoln until Speer, it should go along Speer (blow out a lane in each direction), 1st Ave, a station right in front of the Cherry Creek Mall, then Cherry Creek Dr north, down Colorado Blvd (possibly a subway system along this stretch) until it meets back with the existing light rail line at I-25. Of course I'm just dreaming; this will never happen. If it did though, Denver's mass transit would be twice as convenient and usable as it is now.

Amen. A critical need, but a difficult one, since it would benefit the suburbs only indirectly, so it would be a tough sell to suburban residents.

Such a thing may come to pass anyway. There is talk of a streetcar system being built. In fact, a small piece of a future streetcar service is already in the works. The current "D" LRT is functionally a streetcar already from the convention center north. (The main difference between streetcar and LRT is that streetcar is not grade-separated from traffic, so it has to stop at traffic lights.). Fastracks does include funding for the "Downing Street Extension" to bring D-line up to connect with the East Corridor, at the station at what RTD calls 40th & 40th (essentially 40th & Downing). That will likely be a streetcar rather than LRT.

I've seen stuff from RTD talking about making a spur line from the "D" that would head down Broadway or Lincoln to connect to Civic Center Station (which is currently disconnected from LRT, a real flaw in the system). The same line would tie into conceptual plans for an East Colfax line from Civic Center Station east.

Of course, except for the Downing Street extension, this is all a long ways off, AFTER Fastracks, which won't finally be done for another 9-10 years. Still, RTD is already thinking of an extension of the Fastracks tax that some are dubbing "Nextracks", in which some of this stuff may be tackled. They will have to sell the system to the voters, which may be difficult after some of their missteps with fastracks, though by that time gas will likely be north of $10.00 and people may be crying for RTD expansion.

[wanttomoveeast]

I'm not sure if it'd be such a tough sell to suburbanites. Me for one, would absolutely love the light rail going right by my house (ok, not right by!!). The north light rail proposal (Fastracks) goes very far, I think even up to 130th or so. It does not require any homeowners to sell, no obtrusive construction. I think some people are wary since they don't want to see the rail cruising by their kitchen window though.