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With rising gas prices, Denver's ambitious rail transit plans are getting some nationwide attention. Some see it as a wise decision that was made back during times of low gas prices, while others see the system as too limited, expensive, or tax-burdensome.
What do you think of the system? What are its strong points, areas where it needs improvement, your vision of the future, etc.?
The way I look at it, we have to have a public transit system to serve the elderly, the disabled, the low-income, the teenagers, and people who choose not to drive. We're required by law to do so, a fact the transit-haters can't seem to understand. So, if we have to have a public transit system, then why not have a good public transit system that everyone will use? The cost difference between mediocre and good isn't all that much when it comes to transit.
In any case, I think that the in the future the voters' decision to invest in fastracks will be seen as prescient. The era of the single-occupant automobile is coming to a close. We have $4.00 gasoline today -- $10.00 gasoline is right around the corner, and like it or not our lives are about to change. Cars will continue to play a part, and RTD's system in fact will continue to depend on private cars as the "last mile" link of its system in many areas, but transit is going to inevitably play a much bigger part in the transportation solutions, not just in Denver, but in every city across the country.
One gap in RTD's service is (surprisingly) the relative lack of light rail service IN the city; a fact which fastracks won't really change. Light rail is currently primarily designed to serve the suburbs -- and justifiably so, considering that 80% of RTD's taxpayers outside of the city of Denver. Current ridership, however, is far more slanted toward Denver, and buses in the city of Denver tend to be quite full, whereas many bus routes in some of the suburban areas are mostly empty. It seems to me that the city of Denver deserves some rail routes -- there is talk of streetcars on Colfax, Broadway, and Speer, and even some more ambitious light rail plans beyond that. Mostly, however, this a conversation that will have to wait 10 years for the current fastracks routes to be finished, and it may be difficult to convince the mostly suburban RTD taxpayers to pay up for service that benefits only Denver -- likely any future proposals will have to be sold as a "package" deal.
Anyway, however, with the completion of Fastracks, we're going to be one of the only metro areas in the country to have attempted a public transit expansion on this scale in the last few decades. (NYC, Boston, etc were fortunate enough to have largely built our their systems a century ago). Only Washington D.C. could boast a more extensive transit program built in recent memory, though D.C. has access to pots of federal money that nowhere else (certainly not Denver) could really have access to.
That's pretty impressive, but my guess is that we won't be the last. Most other large cities will be starting a fastracks-like program within the next decade, out of necessity. Denver just happened to have thought ahead.
I think compared to cities of similar size to Denver we have a huge lead in overall mass transit. Even the attitude out here compared to those of cities in the midwest etc. is different. Other places it seems view mass transit as mostly a mode of transportation for the poor and lower class and usually has shotty coverage. As far as the coverage here it is extensive and regular as well as the new fastraks program will only add to this which gives an even better advantage of mass transit over the car.
During several of my trips over the last 5 months to Denver I depended solely on Public Transportation. The system seemed to work pretty well. There were a few times I had to take a taxi because my appointments were too early in the morning (I think one was at 6:00 in the Ken Caryle area and the other was at 8:00 on a Saturday at the Jefferson County building.)
Loved the train but I wish the rest of the routes were constructed already. We found an apartment in Golden and if I could drive to a Golden station I'd absolutely ride the train to the city. I think there's probably a decent bus route I can use if I drive to a P-n-R in Westminster or something.
Coming from a city that has a pretty good bus system but is trying to develop a better system with trains, dedicated bus lanes, light rapid transit, etc, I can see the huge asset to Denver's downtown development having a system already in place.
Every new project proposed here in downtown has to have ridiculous amounts of parking attached to it because the mindset here is still one of driving to get to there. It's caused a lot of projects not to be built because it's cost prohibitive buying expensive downtown land to create parking and hurts the density of downtown because there's so many parking ramps.
So, while not an expert, I think Denver's on the right track. (No pun intended.)
Its ironic how streetcars were once on thoroughfares like Broadway and Colfax, only to be torn out in the 40's. With the recent rapid, hideous rise in energy and materials needed for light rail projects, I worry that there won't be sufficient funds to complete FastTrax entirely. The mere thought of other big U.S. cities proposing such a plan now wouldn't settle well with the strapped taxpayers. It may be too late for them.
Well now that I look at it (using Google's RTD planner) it doesn't look like there's a quick way to downtown from Golden. Using the route it suggests it's an hour trip.
Is there a PnR somewhere near Golden (Broomfield, Westminser, Lakewood areas) that has an express route to downtown?
Well now that I look at it (using Google's RTD planner) it doesn't look like there's a quick way to downtown from Golden. Using the route it suggests it's an hour trip.
Is there a PnR somewhere near Golden (Broomfield, Westminser, Lakewood areas) that has an express route to downtown?
As many readers know, I am a big advocate of public transit and use the bus often.
The best routes from Golden to Downtown depends where you live:
Living near downtown Golden. The best local route is the 16L, West Colfax Limited, which has been recently expanded, that goes into Golden and goes directly downtown. Another route from the center of Golden is the 44L, 44 Limited. These Limited buses have reduced stops which makes it like an express. There is also the 16, West Colfax which is a major bus route that runs everyday and almost 24 hours. I have the 16 often and it is very safe. When I worked downtown, many times I would take the 44L, a good fast trip.
Living on the southeast side of Golden. The best Park n' Ride that is near Golden is Cold Springs, at the Federal Center, in Lakewood. This is one the largest Park n' Ride in the system, in terms of buses. It has numerous express buses that originate and touch at this multi-level center. Also many local routes. A good route out of this is the AF, the route to the airport because it stops at Market Street Station and has an expansive schedule, every day. So you can take an express bus downtown and if you stay very late you can always catch the AF from the airport (the fare is reduced from downtown).
Living on the east of Golden A good spot is the the transit station at Applewood, 38th and Youngfield, in front of Walmart. There are numerous buses, local,, limited that go downtown. You can park in the lot right near the bus. There is Route 38, 38L, etc.
Living Northeast of Golden The Westminster Park n' Ride is one of the best and I use it often--I live in Arvada. It has numerous express buses that go to, and originate from this center. It is served by many local buses. The best route out of this center, almost 24 hours is the B bus from Boulder because there are no more stops from Westminster until it gets downtown. Also, there are other regional buses, such as the L, from Longmont, that service this station to Market Street Station. There is also the Arvada Park and Ride which has some express buses to Downtown.
Broomfield is not near Golden.
Keep in mind that the West Light Rail Corridor is now under construction and will be the first finished, under fastracks. However now transit riderships has dramatically increased along this area and RTD has recently expanded the West Colfax 16 and 16L which somewhat comes close to what the West Corridor will follow.
Thanks Livecontent. It looks like I can be at the Ken Caryle park and ride pretty quickly too with a few bus routes directly downtown or to the Englewood train station.
Could drive downtown faster but this way I can avoid parking.
Its ironic how streetcars were once on thoroughfares like Broadway and Colfax, only to be torn out in the 40's. With the recent rapid, hideous rise in energy and materials needed for light rail projects, I worry that there won't be sufficient funds to complete FastTrax entirely. The mere thought of other big U.S. cities proposing such a plan now wouldn't settle well with the strapped taxpayers. It may be too late for them.
I wouldn't be quite so "gloom and doom". These things always go in cycles.
I have lived and worked in New York City; considered the best public transit in the US. I have lived in the center of one of the largest European cities and I used the transit system often. Now, I have lived in Denver for many years and I have years to compare it with my past and I would say the system is a very good transit system, considering Denver is not a very large city.
It surprised me that the bus system was very extensive when I moved here in the 1970s. After some failed attempts we have been able to get the voters approval for this massive multi-modal transit system. I am very optimistic about the future of the system.
Denver has implemented this transit initiative at a very opportunute time. It is a time when people are starting to return to the cities because of the amenites that being recognized as valuable. In addition, this energy crisis has further spurred the development of movement closer to the city center. This denser development will further help in making public transit more economical to run because of the increased denser population. That is what really makes New York City a good transit center--it is dense.
So, with the closer movement to the city , we are not caught with the problem of building a transit system and hoping for riders. We will have the riders there and the service will be needed because of increased development.
Cars will continue to be important part of the mix but they will be minimized in the denser city core. However, the Denver system does reach farther out to help reduce the use of automobiles. A problem I see is the continued idea that transit is being built with Denver as the core; I think we have to concentrate more on suburban to suburban travel without going to Downtown Denver. Hopefully when this initially Fastrack system is finished we will see further rail and bus development within the suburbs.
Some have said that we need more street car type service in Denver. I believe that can only happen when we restrict auto traffic within these dense core areas. Many years ago streetcars were more of a success because there auto traffic was far less. Today we need to turn the inner city streets over to more public transit which would include streetcars and Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) and they can only succeed without the competition for lanes with auto traffic. It would be more economical to supplant auto lanes then to build dedicated transit lanes and in most areas, additional lanes cannot be built. The day will come when driving a car to the inner city will cost an extra toll or will be prohibited entirely.
Will Denver become like New York City?? I hope not because NYC is too big. I believe Denver will become more like a smaller European City where living in the City will become the premier place to live, shop and recreate. The Western United States may exist in the imagination of many people as a very rural ,rustic, area; but for most people, by far, living in the West is, and will be, in denser urban cities; for good and bad. A good public transit is one of the ways that these denser urban cities can be better for all Westerners.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 06-19-2008 at 08:56 PM..
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