The beginning of the end for suburbia? (Denver, Louisville: sales, HOA)

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

Those busses that show up to your house and take you the 4 miles to the closest grocery store for a gallon of milk -- they are EVERYWHERE in the county.

Not sure which county you think is THE county? There are four counties surrounding Denver (Adams, Arapahoe, Broomfield and Jefferson), plus two others, Boulder and Douglas that make up the metro area. The RTD services all these places. Louisville and several other places have Call and Ride service that actually does take you door to door for the price of a regualr fare.

Honestly? That's it? Either we support the arrogant notion that oil and a large yard (in the desert) are our god given right or we live in the third world? I'd say any European would have a field day with that notion. I'd say, with some experience in this area, that third world nations have a whole lot to teach us.

Most yards in this semi-arid (not desert) area are quite small by eastern or midwestern standards. I don't think I care to experience the disease and other public health problems of third world countries.

And I tire of paying to protect a stupid way of life by paying higher taxes to support said stupidity. Norway went though a similar situation recently. It turns out just because you can build it, the rest of us should not have to support it.

Everybody's lifestyle is partially supported by taxes. This is especially true in Europe.

To an extent, but your reference to broomfield brings a couple of interesting caveats. No one up there from a tech perspective is doing well at all.

Do you think if the economy tanks that downtown will be spared or that Broomfield will fare worse? It seems to me it would depend more on the type of business than the location.

Another motorcycle rider on the forum. Cool.

I think the poster was referring to his car.

[rybert]

Motorcycle riders often refer to their car/truck as a "cage."

[Katiana]

^^^Well, I'll be darned. You learn something new every day. Thanks rybert.

[cabolissa]

Originally Posted by rkb0305

So what do you think they're going to do with existing suburbs? Bulldoze them? Don't forget that some people who live in the suburbs work in them too. My husband drives only 3 miles to work. The only reason he doesn't bike is lack of a shower once he gets there. And what is it about suburban "McMansions" as a symbol of greed and waste that is different than a million dollar home in the city? If people have money they will spend it. Wouldn't you?

This is very true. There are mansions in the city, and mansions in the suburbs. There is waste in the city, bored kids who loiter, etc just as much as in the burbs.

Everyone has the right to choose their lifestyle. For me it's living in the burbs handsdown. But I love working downtown. So shoot me! At least I swore off plastic water bottles and grocery bags in 2008. We do what we can.

[jkanderson521]

Bringing back this thread is very interesting like a bit of a time capsule... The static and linear analysis this summer that predicted that oil was going "to zoom" to over $200/bl and gas racing $5 and skyward and the doom and collapse of suburbia was premature and likely wrong. Sure, there will be those who will say, just wait, it'll rebound hard and fast, right back over $100/bl, and $4 gas just like before. Sure, just like when people thought prices for homes were only going to go up, buy now or be priced out forever, etc, etc. You always have to look at underlying motivation to determine how much bias is in a prediction.

Urbanist clergy preach the gospel of the destruction of suburbia because they have made their investment in the city (nothing wrong with that) and hope to be regarded as wise and profit handsomly from the speculated increased demand from all those poor suburban souls moving back into the city (not so good to hope to profit from the suffering of others). The other problem with Urbanist dogma is the arrogance and self righteous attitude of many of its proponents, Kunstler et al, who have a profound bigotry towards anyone who dos not share their particular view of the world and go on to walk around in a false, and woefully ignorant, self righteous fog and seek to shame and denegrate others around them who aren't fellow acolytes.

Cabolissa said it well, there is waste in the city and waste in the suburbs, interestingly many modern suburban communities are far "greener" places than many of their urban couterparts. However, when one is puffed up in their own bigotry and self-righteousness (Kunstler et al), the truth can be hard to see.

[blacksmith76]

If more people would ride fuel efficient motorcycles when the weather is nice for the short term, we could really stick it to the oil producing countries and it would help people maintain their suburban lifestyles. Plus, the main danger involved with riding motorcycles is getting creamed by a "cager." With more bikes on the road, there would be fewer cars/SUVs and more awareness of motorcycles.

[Katiana]

My friend's husband was killed riding a motorcycle to a business meeting in downtown Denver. After that, I had a very changed view of motorcycle riding. He was wearing a helmet.

[Bob from down south]

Originally Posted by Katiana

My friend's husband was killed riding a motorcycle to a business meeting in downtown Denver. After that, I had a very changed view of motorcycle riding. He was wearing a helmet.

We don't call 'em "Donorcycles" for nothing...

[wanttomoveeast]

I'll add to this. I don't think it's just fuel efficient bikes, but cars as well. Even over these two, I think mass transit needs to be vastly improved, heavily integrated in all cities, to calm our addiction to oil. Also, a change in thought process would help immensely. I know people who are outright afraid of taking the bus. Just ludicrous.

Originally Posted by blacksmith76

If more people would ride fuel efficient motorcycles when the weather is nice for the short term, we could really stick it to the oil producing countries and it would help people maintain their suburban lifestyles. Plus, the main danger involved with riding motorcycles is getting creamed by a "cager." With more bikes on the road, there would be fewer cars/SUVs and more awareness of motorcycles.

[steveindenver]

I'll add to this. I don't think it's just fuel efficient bikes, but cars as well. Even over these two, I think mass transit needs to be vastly improved, heavily integrated in all cities,

No doubt there are areas of improvement, but where do you draw the line? The inner city and sub-inner city lines are already pretty well developed as you and I know; is there money in providing bus lines to exurbia?

-Steve (who still rides donorcycles despite the fact that they are simply stupid).