5 points revitalized? (Denver, Aurora, Victor: transplants, travel, houses)

[WilliamPacker]

What is your problem? We understand that you don't like the area and that you think your hood is better.
It is undeniable though that 5 points has some unique history and is an interesting area. It will likely turn around sooner rather than later. I've searched the area while house hunting and I will agree that a lot of the affordable houses for sale need a lot of work. There are some great houses there though and the housing stock is very assorted. The low income housing is an eye sore and I feel if that wasn't there people would be less hesitant to invest in the area. The downside is the low income housing isn't hidden in 5 points. When I was looking at homes in NW Denver I had no idea that there was a large section of LI housing tucked into a corner of the neighborhood because it was so well hidden. 5 points certainly isn't a terrifying area or a hell hole as some people make it sound.
Other hoods around the country have turned around despite having much worse problems than 5 points. There are so many desireable and trendy areas in Denver that did have more going for it than did 5 points. That is probably why some areas in the city have risen faster than 5 points. Before too long there are going to be trendy shops, bars and restauraunts in the area. The location and housing stock in the area almost make it inevitable.

[yodi]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Ooh the Jazz center for Denver that says it all because when I think of Jazz I think of Denver not New Orleans, St. Loius, Memphis, Chicago, Kansas City, or Harlem. What exactly is better about the area? It is unbelievably poor and has nothing to offer other than history. Here's an idea make a museum to preserve the history and then tear the rest of that sh*t down.

WTF?

Five Points has some beautiful architecture and is in a prime location right next to downtown. It has character unlike a lot of the newly gentrified neighborhoods. I sure hope it's not torn down and turned into nothing but condos, mc mansions with a Starbucks on every corner.

[jjacobeclark]

What makes you all so confident that it will turn itself around? Wouldn't it have been much easier just to reovate those old houses in Five Points rather than convert a bunch of old warehouses and build new buildings that look like warehouses in LoDo? If people wanted to live there they would. In the area's 150 plus years of history it has only gotten worse since the Jazz era of the 30's and 40's. There has never been a revival of any kind in the last 70 years. Milwaukee, where I am from, is a much older city than Denver with way older neighborhoods and I have never seen any part of that city as run down as Five Points. You can't ignore a part of your city for that long and expect it to come back to life. I don't feel afraid for my safety in Five Points that is not why I think it sucks. I think it sucks for purely aesthetic reasons.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Ooh the Jazz center for Denver that says it all because when I think of Jazz I think of Denver not New Orleans, St. Loius, Memphis, Chicago, Kansas City, or Harlem. What exactly is better about the area? It is unbelievably poor and has nothing to offer other than history. Here's an idea make a museum to preserve the history and then tear the rest of that sh*t down.

it is attitudes like this that got us the 60's Denver skyline renewal project that leveled hundreds of Very historical relevant Victorian homes. Denver actually has a very significant Jazz history.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

What makes you all so confident that it will turn itself around? Wouldn't it have been much easier just to reovate those old houses in Five Points rather than convert a bunch of old warehouses and build new buildings that look like warehouses in LoDo? If people wanted to live there they would. In the area's 150 plus years of history it has only gotten worse since the Jazz era of the 30's and 40's. There has never been a revival of any kind in the last 70 years. Milwaukee, where I am from, is a much older city than Denver with way older neighborhoods and I have never seen any part of that city as run down as Five Points. You can't ignore a part of your city for that long and expect it to come back to life. I don't feel afraid for my safety in Five Points that is not why I think it sucks. I think it sucks for purely aesthetic reasons.

Go right across I-25 in the sub-divisions, about 15 years ago no one would be caught dead there in the day time let alone the night time. It is about 10 years into a revitalization and going VERY strong. Tearing out large areas of historically significant homes is not the answer.

[jjacobeclark]

Who cares if homes are "historically significant" as you put it, if they are not practical or comfortable for normal families? Have you seen the size of the rooms in these houses? You couldn't even fit a bed, a dresser, and a computer desk in most of the rooms in those houses. Who wants to live in a 5 bedroom house with only 1 bathroom in it? Who wants to raise their kids in a neighborhood without any nice parks or a house without a backyard? Should the kids go play with syringes and broken glass in the alley?

Maybe if it was just yuppies, bohemians, and affluent gay couples in the area it would be different, but it is mostly very poor Latino and Black families who can't afford anything better. The schools in that part of town are absolutely awful because there is no property tax base. Manual High was the worst of the worst. Strong revitalization should look like Highlands, once a crime ridden NW Denver Neighborhood now considered cooler than LoDo, Capitol Hill, or Cherry Creek.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Who cares if homes are "historically significant" as you put it, if they are not practical or comfortable for normal families? Have you seen the size of the rooms in these houses? You couldn't even fit a bed, a dresser, and a computer desk in most of the rooms in those houses. Who wants to live in a 5 bedroom house with only 1 bathroom in it? Who wants to raise their kids in a neighborhood without any nice parks or a house without a backyard? Should the kids go play with syringes and broken glass in the alley?

Maybe if it was just yuppies, bohemians, and affluent gay couples in the area it would be different, but it is mostly very poor Latino and Black families who can't afford anything better. The schools in that part of town are absolutely awful because there is no property tax base. Manual High was the worst of the worst. Strong revitalization should look like Highlands, once a crime ridden NW Denver Neighborhood now considered cooler than LoDo, Capitol Hill, or Cherry Creek.

I guess you would rather make generalizations on different types of people than look at the significance in the area. There are areas of Denver now that you would not have walked through just 10 years ago, I can think of at least 5 areas not far from lodo, well including LODO itself that were just absolutely trashed. They did undergo a revitalization, and are doing quite well. All it takes is one person to start the renovations, and more will follow. I strongly believe that 5 points is very close to such a revitalization, as the renovations of lodo spread north (which they are) it will move into the 5 points area, right now it is taking place in Curtice park, and getting stronger. I know many people that would love to own a house designed by a very significant historical Architect, I for one am one of these people. If the homes there were destroyed, I stand a good chance of getting ahold of hundreds of contracts out of it, but you know what? I have morals, and love of history. If you destroy the historical parts, who is going to benefit? What If I said that the Eiffel tower is just a pit hole, or the Washington monument was such a waste and wished for them to be demolished, do you think that should happen on a whim? Frank E. Edbrook one of the Major Architects in the west in the late 1800's designed many of the homes there, and it would be a SHAME to have them torn out and loose a piece of history that is all to rapidly disappearing.
I am all for new construction, but not at the cost of our history.

[Noahma]

Just to add some historical information about 5-points.

"Five Points is the name given to the neighborhoods surrounding the intersection of Washington Street, 27th Street, 26th Avenue and Welton Street, northeast of Downtown Denver. The collision between the downtown diagonal grid and the rectangular grid of East Denver neighborhoods causes this intersection to be five-way, hence the name. One of the city's oldest neighborhoods, the area came to prominence in the 1860s. The Curtis Park and Ballpark neighborhoods are located within the larger Five Points neighborhood, one of the largest neighborhoods in Denver."



"Five points for some is considered the "Harlem of the West" for its long jazz history. It was the first predominantly African-American neighborhood in Denver. In the '30s, '40s and '50s, it was home to over fifty bars and clubs, where some of the greatest jazz musicians ever, such as Billie Holiday, Duke Ellington, Miles Davis and others played.
"

Five Points (Denver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

"The construction of light rail into the neighborhood by Denver's Regional Transportation District, and the area's proximity to downtown has led to rapid gentrification of the neighborhood, with historic Victorian homes undergoing restoration and expensive loft construction. This has led many to lament the disappearance of Five Points unique culture and contribution to the city. Many of the long-term residents of the neighborhood have left due to rising rents, most re-settling in suburban areas like Aurora."

the revitalization has already begun

Denver History - Urban Renaissance

[DenverAztec]

Great information Noahma! I was just in the Curtis Park/Five Points area this weekend visiting friends who are remodeling their third home there. They are realitors and flippers and have been doing this since the late 80s. It is a slow process but lucratic for them. This year will mark the 35th annual home tour of the Curtis Park gems, here are a few pics I took at last years home tour:













































There are dozens of new condo sturctures filling the vacant lots and they are in the price range of $650,000 and up. They look like this:

[Noahma]

thank you for the pictures. I LOVE Second Empire Victorian homes, they are rare to find in this part of the country, but there are a few in Denver. They have the Mansard Roof

(steep pitched roof followed by a very low pitch on top)
(tenth from the bottom)

I think We have this tour on the calender for my wife and I to go to.