5 points revitalized? (Denver, Aurora, Greenwood Village: renting, loft, crime)

[Mikieo415]

Does anyone see the 5 points neighborhood and the surrounding areas, with their close proximity to downtown, coming to life as another place ripe for gentrification? Or is it going to always be kinda iffy?

[2bindenver]

many new builds, many people moving in - all kinds of people. Light Rail, location are big pluses.

[jjacobeclark]

The housing there is completely delapitated. It's a bunch of old shotgun houses with terrible floorplans, small rooms, no basements, and no yards. They would have to demolish like 50% of the existing housing up there before it would be livable. Also the area has nothing along the lines of restaurants, bars, grocery stores, dry cleaners, coffee shops, book stores, or anything that would be convenient for residents. The only thing it has going for it is the lightrail, but who would want to live there if you could live in Greenwood Village, which is also accessible via rail, for less money? The few people I have known who lived there, wear it like a badge of honor or something. Sorry but some old buildings and a little colorful history aren't enough reasons for most people to live there.

[tfox]

Yes, though it will take some time. Five points has always been surrounded by somewhat sketchy neighborhoods, and it still continues to this day. For example, the newspapers have been talking non-stop about a tragic attempted murder of a little girl in the Curtis Park neighborhood the week before last. That's very close to five points. (It's unlikely that the perp intended to kill a little girl, but clearly was out to kill someone).

However, change is afoot already. Even here on city-data people have noticed that the 5 Points area offers a lot more for the money than anywhere else close to downtown. That interest is going to fuel a surge in prices and construction, leading to displacement of the renting population. Already, there's been a huge demographic shift. Where did the old residents all go? Mostly Montbello and Aurora. The new residents are coming in from outside and are mostly not AA. AAs are still there in significant numbers, but are now a minority, being displaced mostly by whites with some hispanics.

I totally disagree with the previous posters' comment about the supposed lack of historic and architectural interest in 5 points, even comparing it to Greenwood Village of all places (LOL!). The real situation is quite the opposite, actually. You can't replace 5 points -- no way to replicate 120+ years of history, particularly the African-American history. Frankly, there's no place like 5 points this side of Kansas City (until you get to the Pacific coast, anyway). I hope the "sketchiness" of the hood goes down, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to see it converted into yet another faux-warehouse loft district filled with only new residents. We have enough of those.

[SheridanL]

Don't Go. IMHO!

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by tfox

Yes, though it will take some time. Five points has always been surrounded by somewhat sketchy neighborhoods, and it still continues to this day. For example, the newspapers have been talking non-stop about a tragic attempted murder of a little girl in the Curtis Park neighborhood the week before last. That's very close to five points. (It's unlikely that the perp intended to kill a little girl, but clearly was out to kill someone).

There is no such place as the Curtis Park neighborhood, it is part of Five Points just as LoDo is part of Union Station neighborhood.

However, change is afoot already. Even here on city-data people have noticed that the 5 Points area offers a lot more for the money than anywhere else close to downtown. That interest is going to fuel a surge in prices and construction, leading to displacement of the renting population. Already, there's been a huge demographic shift. Where did the old residents all go? Mostly Montbello and Aurora. The new residents are coming in from outside and are mostly not AA. AAs are still there in significant numbers, but are now a minority, being displaced mostly by whites with some hispanics.

Hispanics are now the dominant ethnic group in Five Points, not whites.

I totally disagree with the previous posters' comment about the supposed lack of historic and architectural interest in 5 points, even comparing it to Greenwood Village of all places (LOL!). The real situation is quite the opposite, actually. You can't replace 5 points -- no way to replicate 120+ years of history, particularly the African-American history. Frankly, there's no place like 5 points this side of Kansas City (until you get to the Pacific coast, anyway). I hope the "sketchiness" of the hood goes down, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to see it converted into yet another faux-warehouse loft district filled with only new residents. We have enough of those.

I wasn't comparing Five Points architectural or historic significance to Greenwood Village, I was comparing neighborhood amenities and rents. As for your statement about no place like Five Points west of KC that doesn't really say much. Who else is there? Salt Lake City? Phoenix? Seattle? None of those places have significant AA populations. Even CA doesn't have many AAs compared to the South or Midwest.

The houses in Five Points are not particularly beautiful in my opinion. Old does not equal beautiful. The houses up there were never owned by prominant citizens like the houses in Cheesman Park or Capitol Hill were. Historically Blacks were not permitted to reach the upper levels of high society in the Old West, so no mansions. Most historic areas in other cities are formerly affluent areas whose residents moved to the suburbs and were replaced by bohemian types. That does not read like Five Points. I'm not saying it could never be a nice neighborhood, it just needs a lot of work and I doubt anyone is willing to invest enough $$ to turn it around. Especially since there seems to be a real culture shift toward the South Metro area. DTC skyline is nearly as big as Downtown's. The development down here is much more rapid than Downtown/Central Denver. I think the fact there are no high end stores in Downtown says a lot. TJ Maxx and Ross? WTF? You don't see that in Chicago, you see Burberry and Ralph Lauren. That sounds a lot like Park Meadows to me. We're getting a Comedy Works down here and bars are springing up one after another. It seems like almost every establishment Downtown is opening locations down here too. Even though the DTC is newer construction, it still does a better job than Highlands, Capitol Hill, LoDo, or Five Points in terms of providing neighborhood amenities like I mentioned previously. I live within less than a mile of four movie theaters, a Whole Foods, 2 King Soopers, a Safeway, and a Vitamin Cottage.

[tfox]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I wasn't comparing Five Points architectural or historic significance to Greenwood Village, I was comparing neighborhood amenities and rents. As for your statement about no place like Five Points west of KC that doesn't really say much. Who else is there? Salt Lake City? Phoenix? Seattle? None of those places have significant AA populations. Even CA doesn't have many AAs compared to the South or Midwest.

My point exactly. There are very few historic 19th Century African American cultural landmarks in the West. 5 points is one of the very few (possibly the only one) that exists. That's why it's still important. Ironically, the thing that jeopardizes the neighborhood most is not the crime (though we hope to see that go away) -- it's gentrification that threatens it most.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

The houses in Five Points are not particularly beautiful in my opinion. Old does not equal beautiful. The houses up there were never owned by prominant citizens like the houses in Cheesman Park or Capitol Hill were. Historically Blacks were not permitted to reach the upper levels of high society in the Old West, so no mansions.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are many structures both commercial and residential of architectural and landmark significance in that area and have been designated as such by the state historical society. In fact, it was 5 points' relatively humble history that has had it spared from the rampant deconstructionism of the DURA era.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Most historic areas in other cities are formerly affluent areas whose residents moved to the suburbs and were replaced by bohemian types. That does not read like Five Points. I'm not saying it could never be a nice neighborhood, it just needs a lot of work and I doubt anyone is willing to invest enough $$ to turn it around.

Clearly, Five Points/Curtis Park is never going to read like the mansions on the 7th Ave Parkway. However, most people can't afford the $1-$2M price tag of those places. Some who could afford it may not desire the prevailing culture of the Central Denver upper crust, either. Clearly, there's something for everyone out there.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Especially since there seems to be a real culture shift toward the South Metro area. DTC skyline is nearly as big as Downtown's.

I don't know what the DTC has to do with 5 points -- they really have nothing in common; total apples and oranges. I share your enthusiasm as to what's happening in the DTC, though realistically it's got a ways to go before it can truly become a the mixed-use center that it could and should be. But, it's making progress.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I live within less than a mile of four movie theaters, a Whole Foods, 2 King Soopers, a Safeway, and a Vitamin Cottage.

Very nice. From your posts I see you live in Hampden Heights. As I said earlier, I think that's an outstanding area.

Back to 5 points, it's actually pretty well connected with basic shopping needs (Safeway, KS within walking distance, WF/Wild Oats + Vitamin Cottage in less than 2 miles), plus a number of small markets and stores, many of them catering its ethnic tastes.

[jjacobeclark]

There is the Un-Safeway at 20th & Washington and everything else requires a car to reach which defeats the purpose of living in the central city. As for the small markets I've been to in in Five Points I've seen dead rats lying on the floor in the middle of food aisles. Ethnic tastes? Zona's Tamales is all I can think of, I'm pretty sure the soul food place on Welton is gone now. Five Points sucks. You shouldn't need a big long explanation or a history lesson to demonstrate an area's worth. You should just be able to look at it and find it appealing.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I wasn't comparing Five Points architectural or historic significance to Greenwood Village, I was comparing neighborhood amenities and rents. As for your statement about no place like Five Points west of KC that doesn't really say much. Who else is there? Salt Lake City? Phoenix? Seattle? None of those places have significant AA populations. Even CA doesn't have many AAs compared to the South or Midwest.

The houses in Five Points are not particularly beautiful in my opinion. Old does not equal beautiful. The houses up there were never owned by prominant citizens like the houses in Cheesman Park or Capitol Hill were. Historically Blacks were not permitted to reach the upper levels of high society in the Old West, so no mansions. Most historic areas in other cities are formerly affluent areas whose residents moved to the suburbs and were replaced by bohemian types. That does not read like Five Points. I'm not saying it could never be a nice neighborhood, it just needs a lot of work and I doubt anyone is willing to invest enough $$ to turn it around. Especially since there seems to be a real culture shift toward the South Metro area. DTC skyline is nearly as big as Downtown's. The development down here is much more rapid than Downtown/Central Denver. I think the fact there are no high end stores in Downtown says a lot. TJ Maxx and Ross? WTF? You don't see that in Chicago, you see Burberry and Ralph Lauren. That sounds a lot like Park Meadows to me. We're getting a Comedy Works down here and bars are springing up one after another. It seems like almost every establishment Downtown is opening locations down here too. Even though the DTC is newer construction, it still does a better job than Highlands, Capitol Hill, LoDo, or Five Points in terms of providing neighborhood amenities like I mentioned previously. I live within less than a mile of four movie theaters, a Whole Foods, 2 King Soopers, a Safeway, and a Vitamin Cottage.

the whole area that makes up 5 points has some GREAT historical significance, not only was it the Jazz center in Denver at the turn of the century, it was Denver's first suburbs. The homes were designed by a good group of Architects including Frank E. Edbrook, which is said to be Denver's first architect. It is worth saving, and it has defiantly gotten better over the years.

[jjacobeclark]

Ooh the Jazz center for Denver that says it all because when I think of Jazz I think of Denver not New Orleans, St. Loius, Memphis, Chicago, Kansas City, or Harlem. What exactly is better about the area? It is unbelievably poor and has nothing to offer other than history. Here's an idea make a museum to preserve the history and then tear the rest of that sh*t down.