Colorado or Utah? (Denver, Colorado Springs, Fort Collins: environment, transplants, job)

[UTorCO?]

I've been lurking and decided it's time to post a question!

We love the outdoors (skiing--both xcountry and downhill), hiking, mountain biking, road biking. Also love tennis, swimming on a masters swim team, running.

We can choose between SLC, Denver, and Boulder. I figured I should decide on a state and then go from there! It's a hard decision!!

As I see it, the pros of Denver or Boulder are all the outdoor activities, religious and political diversity.

The cons are a long drive to skiing on the weekend (with traffic) and what seems to me (sorry if I offend) lots of incredibly unattractive houses. Apparently CO was built up during the 50s and 60s, which was not a good time architecturally....

Pros of SLC are the accessibility to the mountains (20 minutes--easy!). Less expensive housing (in general).

Cons are a huge LDS population (nothing against them in particular but a huge population of any one religion might be a bit weird for me...).
I guess that's the only con but it seems pretty big.

Anyone lived in both or have input which would help sway me? We can afford all options, have work, and have been to CO but not yet to UT (at least not for years). We'll be going to look soon but input from anyone else who thought about both or likes/dislikes about one or the other?

[tolife]

I was trying to decide btw. SLC and Denver like you last year. I'm a skier and I found that the horrible commute times that you hear about in Denver didn't affect me much. Of course, I'm tolerant coming from the D.C. area.

I did a couple of things to help in that regard...

1. Joined skicarpool.org and found some carpool buddies. Great to save on gas and have company if you do get stuck.
2. On weekends, l left before 7 am. or after 10:30 am
3. Arranged my work schedule to take weekdays off
4. Read up on alternate routes.

So all in all , I went 20 times this past season and only got stuck in traffic once! We were stuck for an hour and a half. I still got a great day of skiing in I would recommend that people go to the mountains with a full tank of gas and an emergency kit. I had an interesting experience trying to make a pit stop while stuck in traffic. Men were pulling off the road and simply standing by their cars to relieve themselves. The girls were trying to trek up the mountain to get into the trees for some privacy. Well, the time of year I was there, the snow was really deep! I got stuck and had to relieve myself with my bum in the snow! And people from the highway could see me, it was really embarrassing. So now I know to bring snowshoes with me for emergency pitstops.

There was a really good article in Denver's magazine, 5280, about commuting to the mountains that helped me out. Can't remember the title of the article though.

[EscapeCalifornia]

I don't think you really want to live in Utah if you're not LDS. I've heard from many different sources that its a real uphill battle to fit in there for anyone who's not in the club.

[Spincycle]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

I don't think you really want to live in Utah if you're not LDS. I've heard from many different sources that its a real uphill battle to fit in there for anyone who's not in the club.

I'm not knocking the LDS but there is truth to this statement. This can also be a factor in finding employment, maintainining employment, and 'growing' with the organization. I have heard some horror stories about folks who relo'd to UT and then had to pack up and depart. I'll stop here and let you (re)consider.

[tfox]

I was really impressed with SLC when I went and visited there. It has absolutely amazing access to skiing and mountains. For Denverites, imagine that we here in Denver had world-class skiing located as close as Genesee Park or Evergreen (Echo Mtn doesn't count). That's how close skiing is for SLC residents. The state of Utah is nothing short of a national treasure, too -- this is a state with Bryce Canyon, Arches, Canyonlands, Ziom, flaming gorge, Moab ALL IN ONE STATE. WOW! Gives this Denverite an inferiority complex just thinking about it.

So why didn't I pack up and move to SLC?

Well, the LDS thing is a factor, but in my mind not as big as you'd think. In most of Utah, I think it would be a big deal, but SLC proper is where everyone who is ex-LDS, non-LDS, or who hates the LDS church congregates. So, if you're a "gentile" (yes, that's the term), the solution is simple: live in SLC proper. Even so, the problem is that (unlike Colorado Springs) even the non-LDS or those in other churches seem oddly preoccupied with the LDS church, which is a bit baffling to the outsider.

So that's not it. For me, the real problem is the employment issue. It's true that there are a lot of technology companies started in the Salt Lake Valley, and there is a great entrepreneurial spirit there. However, it all depends on well-educated LDS employees that insist on staying in Utah no matter what, so from what I understand salaries there tend to be really low. Kind of reminds me of Fort Collins in that way -- only much worse.

Oh, and the other problem is the pollution. Denver has bad pollution too, so perhaps we shouldn't throw stones, but SLC is much worse -- some of the worst wintertime inversion anywhere are in the SLC.

So, that's why I put Utah in the "must visit" category, but that doesn't necessarily translate into living there (though despite it all I'd still say it's not too bad). Luckily, we Denverites are almost as close to the natural wonders in SE Utah as SLC residents are (about 5 1/2 hours away to Moab from Denver), so there's no reason why we can't enjoy that corner of their state as much as if it was part of Colorado.

[vegaspilgrim]

I agree with tfox's assessment, like usual. I think that SLC has a lot going for it and I wouldn't be surprised if they are growing at a faster rate than Denver right now. Denver's already old news already in the Mountain West/ western great plains region, whereas cities like Salt Lake City are rising stars. However, I still think Denver is better. Let's just say if Salt Lake City is anything like Gilbert, AZ socially (different climate of course but almost identical demographics, much of the east valley of the Phoenix area being a clearly LDS dominated community) I probably wouldn't feel comfortable living there. Utah is one of my favorite top states to visit, but I don't think I would want to live there. I'd live in Albuquerque before I'd live in Salt Lake. Heck, if you had one giant four corners states "versus" thread... CO vs UT vs NM vs AZ and throw in NV too, that would be one heck of a poll! I love them all, but I think of those five states Utah would be the lowest on my personal list for living (although quite possibly #1 or #2 for visiting).

[RangerDuke08]

I have to second that notion, especially tfox's note, that Utah is a gem and like many Western states we have so much open spaces preserved by the feds and state level. Growing up in the Rockies, we appreciate the color and beauty and being in SLC and Utah several times I was very impressed with their share of natural beauty as well, SLC being a smaller city than Denver also seemed more sustainable with its natural environment, however even though SLC has its good share of transplants in the past 20 years as we do and perhaps is only 50% LDS today, one thing I firmly believe in is mingling with the Natives and certainly elements of the dominance of the LDS presence particularly their eagerness to proselyte would have me wary on any consideration of a move to Utah or Idaho. Not saying there aren't religious nutcases going door to door elsewhere but simply considering you can afford all option Boulder might be your #1 choice.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by Spincycle

I'm not knocking the LDS but there is truth to this statement. This can also be a factor in finding employment, maintainining employment, and 'growing' with the organization. I have heard some horror stories about folks who relo'd to UT and then had to pack up and depart. I'll stop here and let you (re)consider.

I heard the same thing from a woman I used to work with. They moved to SLC from California and came back in a couple years. They felt they were somewhat "shunned" for not being LDS. She said when she finally got a job, people would immediately ask her what temple she belonged to.

[COflower]

Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia

I don't think you really want to live in Utah if you're not LDS. I've heard from many different sources that its a real uphill battle to fit in there for anyone who's not in the club.

I don't think that's true. Of course my friend that lives there has been there all her life but she lives a wonderful non-LDS life in the suburbs of SLC. It is a different culture than say Denver or Boulder, that's for sure.

I would think, however, that anyone that would consider the Denver area and SLC area might like the more liberal attitude in Denver Metro if you are a bit more open minded.

Getting to the ski towns isn't that big a deal if you know how to work it. Plus there's the ski train from Denver to Winter Park (hope they keep that up) and although I've never skiied Winter Park I hear it's a decent area. most of my skiing has been in Summit County and Vail.

[steveco.]

What I noticed about differences from SLC vs. Denver,
1. General lack of drinking establishments and liquor stores, even in the downtown area you will be hard pressed to find a place to go that is not attached to a tourist focused expensive restaurant. And when you do you must first purchase a "membership" to drink in that establishment ONLY, if you intend on going anywhere else? well I guess pony up a couple more extra bucks if you want.
2. Compared to Utah most coloradoans are the most friendly people you will meet. When I was in SLC it was intresting how rude people can be. Not quite sure why... maybe they sense I am not LDS?
3. Very little diversity. Most of the city is your classic wonder bread type, pretty standard.