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Old 09-02-2008, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,399,655 times
Reputation: 3789

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Let me chime in here:

I am an auto alignment tech by trade so I see lots of vehicles.

European cars are pretty much junk once past 85K miles; weird because the older ones (ca. pre 1997) were tolerable.

The Asians are deteriorating in quality------I want to say that ca. 2004 was the cutoff year.

Detroit Three stuff are comparable to Asian products now overall.
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Old 09-02-2008, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
719 posts, read 2,353,271 times
Reputation: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by movementarian View Post
There was a guy in another post (the one asking about what kind of cars Suburbanites have) who drives three Hummers - the 3 big military ones! So he's obviously buying American. USA! USA! USA!
The epitome of superficiality, and sickly ironic. Driving a behemoth H1 to Starbucks for a latte while our kids get blown up in them in a war who's purpose in large part is for our energy security.
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Old 09-02-2008, 04:40 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,077,045 times
Reputation: 489
The only experience I have with GM, Ford or Chrysler has been through my parents and in-laws. My mother in-law just traded in a 2001 Durango she bought brand new for $25k and got $3500 for it. Unfortunately, she traded it in for a Chrysler Pacifica 2 years ago and is already upside down on that vehicle and will have to pay money to sell it because the value has dropped $10k in 2 years.

Until the American automakers can produce a product that doesn't plummet in value so fast (aside from their trucks), I'd say buying a Toyota or Honda isn't a bad choice. Especially when those two companies employ thousands of Americans.
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Old 09-02-2008, 06:41 PM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,943 posts, read 7,303,532 times
Reputation: 1698
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Let me chime in here:

I am an auto alignment tech by trade so I see lots of vehicles.

European cars are pretty much junk once past 85K miles; weird because the older ones (ca. pre 1997) were tolerable.

The Asians are deteriorating in quality------I want to say that ca. 2004 was the cutoff year.

Detroit Three stuff are comparable to Asian products now overall.
Somewhat true, but know this. I work for Saturn as an GM Master Tech, and I would NEVER EVER, drive a Saturn. They're cheaply produced, poorly assembled pieces of garbage.

You are correct about the Asians deteriorating in quality though.
As far as Eurpoean cars? They're very reliable, but break it off in your rear end when the time comes for repairs.

Me? I drive a Dodge Ram, and a Wrangler Rubicon. They seem to be the only american vehicles that have never let me down, and were worth the money I paid for them.
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Old 09-02-2008, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,887 posts, read 102,281,764 times
Reputation: 32946
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK123 View Post
I lived in Pittsburgh for 3 years in the 80s. I recall seeing a sign at the entrance to a union HQ parking lot "Warning - foreign cars will be towed."
I am not surprised. My dad used to have a bumper sticker that said "Foreign steel steals jobs".

Quote:
Originally Posted by movementarian View Post
There was a guy in another post (the one asking about what kind of cars Suburbanites have) who drives three Hummers - the 3 big military ones! So he's obviously buying American. USA! USA! USA!
I think he might have been joking. But you never know.
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Old 09-03-2008, 04:02 AM
 
Location: USA
16,826 posts, read 8,660,562 times
Reputation: 12696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockeye View Post
The epitome of superficiality, and sickly ironic. Driving a behemoth H1 to Starbucks for a latte while our kids get blown up in them in a war who's purpose in large part is for our energy security.
What???? Why can't somebody drive what they want it they can afford it? Is energy security bad?

Jealous?
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Old 09-03-2008, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Waterford & Sterling Heights, Michigan
340 posts, read 845,128 times
Reputation: 338
The truth is the Detroit 3 built crappy vehicles in the 70' and the 80', they were just garbage. I do not blame anybody that had one of those for not considering american cars now. Unfortunetly we lost an entire generation of car buyers. That is the price we pay for all the bad decisions that were made back then.
But in the last 7 to 6 years GM and Ford have made an incredible progress but it is going to take decades even a generation of good design and excecution to gain buyers back and convince them that our vehicles are as good or better than foreign brand cars.

The heavy reliance on rental fleets have destroyed the resale value of american cars and have cause irreparable harm to some of its brands. That is why a Pontiac Vibe have a lower resale value than the Toyota Matrix even though they are built in the same assembly line and is the same vehicle. Also the Vibe have lower scores in consumer reports and JD Power than the Matrix and it is the same vehicle, but the Pontiac brand is tarnished.
Also no body treat rental cars like their own, poeple treat them like crap. After a year or two these cars are sold by the rental car company with a huge discount hurting the consumer that bought the car brand new.

I have heard some people saying that their foreign car is more american because it was built in the US.
I think that if a Camry is built in the US is irrelevant. Toyota also builds cars in South America and GM builds cars in India, so what? Does that make GM an Indian company? Those that makes Toyota a South American company? I don't think so.
I can't deny the benefits and the job creation effect that these foreign brand U.S. plants have on certain towns and cities in the U.S. But how this contributes to America's economical and technological leadership in the world? A strong American Industry gave us that leadership in the last century and Toyota is not an American industry. When they start reporting their profits in dollars instead of yen and move their headquarters from Japan to the US I will consider them american.

In the end this is a free market and people buy what best for them. And as long as they continue to buy foreign brand car it means we still have a ton of work to do.
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,215,035 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by eminko View Post
LOL I love this thread. I came here from the armpit of Ohio and I can't believe the amount of Subarus I see here... I always thought they were pieces of crap because nobody in the midwest buys them. They always reminded me of a lower end version of Saturn... My hometown created Jeep, so I get uber excited whenever I see someone with a Jeep which probably came from Toledo!!

I have a 99 Pontiac with 83,000 miles and I will be keeping my baby until the motor falls out!
I think a "lower end version of Saturn" would be a go-cart! Every Saturn I've been in was a total piece of junk, right off the showroom floor.
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,215,035 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimomof2 View Post
I am sure not stupid enough or naive to buy foreign!
Huh? I tried two GMs and a Ford, and all were drains on my bank account! Then I've had an Isuzu, Nissan, and now a Toyota, and none of those cars have any problems other than routine maintenance. If the U.S. could build a car that didn't fall apart, I'd be happy to buy one. But I've been bitten one too many times.
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,215,035 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
What???? Why can't somebody drive what they want it they can afford it? Is energy security bad?

Jealous?
Just because you can afford it doesn't make it right.
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