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Old 09-07-2008, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
33,391 posts, read 57,968,073 times
Reputation: 32156

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mczabe View Post
Wow, you all are a free wheeling bunch here in CO!

I think it's a bit reckless to encourage "average joes" to go without a professional inspection.
You may be right, but you have to remember that a great many critical people on internet forums really don't care who is hurt as long as they get to grind the ax they have chosen.
Preferably in anonymity.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Spring, Texas
409 posts, read 1,518,614 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFromSoDak View Post
Let me ask you this, though - what kind of training does it take to be a home inspector? This is community college-level education, AT BEST. If you're a decent handyman, or happen to be educated in a technical field like engineering or architecture or something, I'm sure you possess at least as much ability to perform a home inspection. The overwhelming majority of defects are not difficult to notice, and those which are difficult to notice are probably hidden behind walls or not something any inspector would be able to see..
Where to begin... you can't honestly be advising buyers to attempt their own inspections... your kidding....right? As far as their education... I believe it 's a bit more diffulcut to get your license than you elude.

Perhaps the home inspection questions should be left to the inspection professionals that actually have the experience....Sunny
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
9,047 posts, read 17,999,703 times
Reputation: 6648
First of all showing homes is easy. The agents job is really from contract to close and involves things the buyer never sees or knows about for the most part. If the process goes very smooth, it probably means the agent did an exceptional job.

Secondly, the seller has agreed to pay x commission. There is a broker to broker agreement that the list company will share Y of the commission (X) with the cobroke company. If there is no cobroke company then the list broker gets the total commission (X) unless there is an agreement in the ex. right to sell stating otherwise (which buyers are not privy to since it's between the agent and the seller).

Some agents, but don't assume all agents, will allow some of X commission to go back to seller if the buyer is unrepresented. Of course, if the buyer is unrepresented, then the seller normally wants to keep the savings so they make more money so there is no guarantee the buyer gets the savings.

I think Dan's advice could get someone into legal issues. To recieve a commission from a brokerage an active RE license is required. Silverfall has some good suggestions. I have no problem with unrepresented buyers but they'll have to work some stuff out for themselves including viewing the property and getting in for inspections.
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Old 09-07-2008, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
9,047 posts, read 17,999,703 times
Reputation: 6648
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFromSoDak View Post
While I don't doubt that real estate agents are useful in many situations, I just want to point out that we shouldn't depend on them heavily as through they were a professional (like a doctor or a lawyer). Real-estate-agent training is not comperable to formal higher education. While there are some agents with degrees, many do not have anything beyond industry-specific training. Even professions which we don't usually associate with tremendously high levels of education (such as teachers or electricians or plumbers or nurses) are better educated than real estate agents. So I guess my point is: You should always watch out for yourself, and not rely on anyone (even a real estate agent) to take care of you. And if you're going to do that, why bother with a buyer's agent at all?
That is your mistake. Most of the top brokers have much more than the minimum education. Don't assume everyone in the field only has minimum requirements. How often does a company hire someone who only meets minimum requirements? Then I would also wonder why a buyer/seller would hire minimum requirement Realtors rather than qualified ones. Judge a profession by the majority and not the minority. If a consumer is smart and hires a good agent, then they should be able to rely on them as they would a doctor or lawyer. Most Realtors actually do have a college degree, just in another field, FYI.

I'd be willing to go out on a limb and guess a plumber with a HS degree is much better at plumbing work than a lawyer with a PhD in law despite the difference in education. Don't look at education, look at training. Education is worthless unless it is in the applicable field.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
2,124 posts, read 7,930,827 times
Reputation: 813
Just to clear up a few misconceptions:

a) there is no standard commission ANYWHERE. To have one would be collusion. Each company sets their own commission amount.

b) when the contract is drawn up between seller and listing agent, a total commission amount is agreed upon. the listing agent decides how much of THEIR commission they are willing to part with should a buyers agent bring a buyer to the deal. The contract also states that the listing agent is due this (total) commission regardless of where the buyer comes from. so you as buyer cannot automatically assume you will "save" that commission amount. It isn't yours to save. It actually belongs to the listing agent. So, if you were going to have a discussion with anyone, it should be the listing agent. Now, if it were me... I would rather see MY CLIENT (the seller) get that savings than you.. if I were of the mind to "share" my money.

c) and I love buyers who think they are going to "save" the commission amount, but Do Not Know the market and make offers that are more than market. So in reality they pay more than if they had an experienced agent helping them craft a great deal. Happens all the time : )

Have a nice day : )

Shelly
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:58 AM
Status: "Celebrating 30 years as a Broker" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
10,879 posts, read 29,291,278 times
Reputation: 7084
Shelly people don't know what they don't know.

It's easy to buy into the standard 6 and save 3 by not having representation garbage that is all over the TV and the net.

For the most part buying and selling property is personal. The only organized part is what the Realtors bring to the table. We cooperate with competitors in order to meet the goals of our clients. You sell mine, I'll sell yours - unprecedented. We volunteer for local, state and national leadership. We fight for ownership friendly legislation, help first time buyers with money, bring home ownership education to schools....

As I said, they don't know what they don't know. None of us do.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Spring, Texas
409 posts, read 1,518,614 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bindenver View Post
As I said, they don't know what they don't know. None of us do.
Bingo...

I've changed my oil filter... does that make me a mechanic? I've doctored my pets...does that make me a vet? I've done a few watercolors does this make me an artist? I've played on a few sports teams... does that make me an athlete? I've played Texas Hold'em online ... does mean I'm a gambler?

Of course not...beyond the obvious educational requirements.... it boils down to "real" experience & how proficient you are with your craft. We all have a multitude of talents...some of which... we are more experienced in than others...but this doesn't by any stretch of the imagination ... make us professionals in all we dabble with.
Sunny
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Old 09-08-2008, 05:46 PM
 
1,151 posts, read 2,666,973 times
Reputation: 248
Default Yes and no

It's ridiculous to disparage the level of education of an entire industry. Asking the seller to try to renegotiate their listing agreement so that 3% of the commission is saved isn't interference with contract in a legal sense. Buyers are successful without buyer's agents all the time and don't always end up paying more than if they were represented. Those are the facts.
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
9,047 posts, read 17,999,703 times
Reputation: 6648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin-Willy View Post
It's ridiculous to disparage the level of education of an entire industry. Asking the seller to try to renegotiate their listing agreement so that 3% of the commission is saved isn't interference with contract in a legal sense. Buyers are successful without buyer's agents all the time and don't always end up paying more than if they were represented. Those are the facts.
Nor do they always save money. I've seen sellers that used this tactic that overpaid without realizing it. It's a case by case basis. I think 2b summed it up best with "You don't know what you don't know."

Also, if the buyer wants to approach the agent and ask that is fine. The buyer should not however approach the owner. The owner elected to have a professional represent them so they obviously don't want people approaching them. It is also a safety issue since you don't know what that stranger at the door wants and if they are really interested in the home. I instruct my sellers not to open the door that reason for safety reasons.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:25 PM
 
1,151 posts, read 2,666,973 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman View Post
Nor do they always save money. I've seen sellers that used this tactic that overpaid without realizing it. It's a case by case basis. I think 2b summed it up best with "You don't know what you don't know."

Also, if the buyer wants to approach the agent and ask that is fine. The buyer should not however approach the owner. The owner elected to have a professional represent them so they obviously don't want people approaching them. It is also a safety issue since you don't know what that stranger at the door wants and if they are really interested in the home. I instruct my sellers not to open the door that reason for safety reasons.
And there are many more buyers who overpay who are represented by agents, so that's neither here nor there. But I guess the saying about not knowing what you don't know is equally applicable to agents.

Buyers are free to approach sellers directly... advice to the contrary is more for the agent's benefit than the seller's.

Invoking safety is a scare tactic, but if there is any indication that it is an issue to the seller, a phone call is just as easy.
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