some elaboration please? re:car tag renewal prices... (taxes, oil)

[jazzlover]

Get real, people. Those pretty mountains also make roads darned expensive to build and maintain. The revenue to do that has to come from somewhere--since we've made the decision to essentially only worship the automobile and highways in this state, and to socialize those costs upon the taxpayers. Living in a sprawled mess of suburbia that requires a huge street and highway network just aggrevates the problem exponentially.

People on this board constantly opine that suburbia and the "privilege" of driving their own personal vehicle for everything is what they want--so, shut up and pay for it. That's what you are buying with those license plate fees and Colorado's high fuel taxes.

[DenverAztec]

Originally Posted by denverian

Yeah, for a state that charges so much for plates, you'd think the roads would be paved in gold. California charges about the same as CO, but at least the roads are in good condition.

California doesn't have our weather to contend with, instead when it rains there the roads are almost as bad as Phoenix. The are slick from the car juices that have built up on the roads. Given the state of the economy in California, I wonder what will be hit worse, the roads or the school systems?

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Get real, people. Those pretty mountains also make roads darned expensive to build and maintain. The revenue to do that has to come from somewhere--since we've made the decision to essentially only worship the automobile and highways in this state, and to socialize those costs upon the taxpayers. Living in a sprawled mess of suburbia that requires a huge street and highway network just aggrevates the problem exponentially.

People on this board constantly opine that suburbia and the "privilege" of driving their own personal vehicle for everything is what they want--so, shut up and pay for it. That's what you are buying with those license plate fees and Colorado's high fuel taxes.

I agree but the problem with sprawl and the 'privilege' attitude is across the country, not exclusive to Colorado. Cities with massive amounts of residents, Houston/Phoenix, have few residents living in their core as they prefer to live further away from one another. Hence, the long commutes and more pollution generated.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Get real, people. Those pretty mountains also make roads darned expensive to build and maintain. The revenue to do that has to come from somewhere--since we've made the decision to essentially only worship the automobile and highways in this state, and to socialize those costs upon the taxpayers. Living in a sprawled mess of suburbia that requires a huge street and highway network just aggrevates the problem exponentially.

People on this board constantly opine that suburbia and the "privilege" of driving their own personal vehicle for everything is what they want--so, shut up and pay for it. That's what you are buying with those license plate fees and Colorado's high fuel taxes.

Not sure why you think we have high fuel costs. According to AAA, the national average is $2.32. Colorado is $1.83. My parents are in Washington State and when our gas was hovering around $4 a gallon, they were well above. They are currently well about $3. They have cheap vehicle registration and fairly decent roads. Arizona has nearly the same costs of registration and fuel but they don't get the extreme weather.

I think they need to raise the fuel tax (not the vehicle registration) to pay for the roads. I am not one of those who thinks that government should not collect ANY money, it's just that I think those who drive the most should pay the most and the only way to do that is to raise the cost of fuel. If you own a car in Denver but take RTD every day to work, why should you have to pay the same as someone who drives all over town and even to their mailbox? Drive more, fill up more, pay more...makes sense to me which is why it won't pass.

Oh, and the good news for those like yourself who think we in surburbia are Cretins, we would have to pay more because we drive out to our so-called "sprawling mess." See...it's a win/win for you to raise fuel taxes since you don't live out here.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by the3Ds

Not sure why you think we have high fuel costs. According to AAA, the national average is $2.32. Colorado is $1.83. My parents are in Washington State and when our gas was hovering around $4 a gallon, they were well above. They are currently well about $3. They have cheap vehicle registration and fairly decent roads. Arizona has nearly the same costs of registration and fuel but they don't get the extreme weather.

I think they need to raise the fuel tax (not the vehicle registration) to pay for the roads. I am not one of those who thinks that government should not collect ANY money, it's just that I think those who drive the most should pay the most and the only way to do that is to raise the cost of fuel. If you own a car in Denver but take RTD every day to work, why should you have to pay the same as someone who drives all over town and even to their mailbox? Drive more, fill up more, pay more...makes sense to me which is why it won't pass.

Oh, and the good news for those like yourself who think we in surburbia are Cretins, we would have to pay more because we drive out to our so-called "sprawling mess." See...it's a win/win for you to raise fuel taxes since you don't live out here.

I happen to agree that raising fuel taxes makes more sense than raising registration fees--for a lot of reasons that you state, and also because Colorado has a tremendous amount of out-of-state traffic on its roads that adds to congestion and problems. Those people should help pay for the impact they make, too. All of that said, Colorado already has one of the highest fuel taxes in the US. Fuel cost is less than many areas here because we also produce quite a bit of it regionally and have refining capacity here--which many areas (like the West Coast) do not.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

I happen to agree that raising fuel taxes makes more sense than raising registration fees--for a lot of reasons that you state, and also because Colorado has a tremendous amount of out-of-state traffic on its roads that adds to congestion and problems. Those people should help pay for the impact they make, too. All of that said, Colorado already has one of the highest fuel taxes in the US. Fuel cost is less than many areas here because we also produce quite a bit of it regionally and have refining capacity here--which many areas (like the West Coast) do not.

Actually there are a number of oil refineries in L.A., although I don't think any new refineries have been (or even can be) constructed in quite some time. California recently increased its already very high fuel tax to make up for its state budget deficit-- there's no reason why Colorado can't do the same thing.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by the3Ds

Not sure why you think we have high fuel costs. According to AAA, the national average is $2.32. Colorado is $1.83. My parents are in Washington State and when our gas was hovering around $4 a gallon, they were well above. They are currently well about $3. They have cheap vehicle registration and fairly decent roads. Arizona has nearly the same costs of registration and fuel but they don't get the extreme weather.

I think they need to raise the fuel tax (not the vehicle registration) to pay for the roads. I am not one of those who thinks that government should not collect ANY money, it's just that I think those who drive the most should pay the most and the only way to do that is to raise the cost of fuel. If you own a car in Denver but take RTD every day to work, why should you have to pay the same as someone who drives all over town and even to their mailbox? Drive more, fill up more, pay more...makes sense to me which is why it won't pass.

Oh, and the good news for those like yourself who think we in surburbia are Cretins, we would have to pay more because we drive out to our so-called "sprawling mess." See...it's a win/win for you to raise fuel taxes since you don't live out here.

That's a good point. In the past year, I only drove a little over 7000 miles, well below the average. If I'd driven double, my car tax would still be the same, although I'd have paid more in gas.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by denverian

That's a good point. In the past year, I only drove a little over 7000 miles, well below the average. If I'd driven double, my car tax would still be the same, although I'd have paid more in gas.

Correct. Even though I live out in the "hell" that is suburbia , neither of our cars have more than 9,000 miles per year put on them. That's considered very low (since leasing a car usually means a limit of 12,000 miles per year and most people use that as the reason they can't lease...they drive too much). There needs to be a true, monetary benefit to taking RTD, driving a fuel efficient (or better...a hybrid) car, living close to where you work. If you decide to live way out in the Boondocks, drive your Cadillac Escalade ALONE to work every day, not consider a more fuel-efficient route when doing errands and are one of those parents inching their way up in line for 15 minutes to drop kids off at school every morning, then you should have to pay more for gas. Why should that person mentioned not have to pay a higher amount for being fuel irresponsible? Their vehicle registration is the same as someone like you (I think I saw a previous thread when you mentioned you had a hybrid). And why should you, with a new hybrid have to pay more than the person driving the oil belching 30 year old pile of junk around just because your car is worth more according to Kelly Blue Book?

To those who mention that Colorado already has high fuel tax...well, since we are well below the national average, raise it even higher. Who cares if we have refineries? You pay for your roads by charging those who use them the most more money. Bigger SUVs and trucks cause more damage to roads, but also cost more to fill up. Raising registration fees punishes everyone, no matter their driving habits (and conveniently ignores all those who live here but keep their old (and likely cheaper) state plates). I never see anyone who lives here with California plates (because they are more expensive). There are lots from Wyoming, Kansas, Missouri and Florida and Washington state.

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by the3Ds

I never see anyone who lives here with California plates (because they are more expensive). There are lots from Wyoming, Kansas, Missouri and Florida and Washington state.

I never paid more than ~$160 for CA plates/stickers.

The same vehicles, when registered here in CO, were $350 and $300, respectively.

Thanks for your comment about "cheap WA plates". I've been wondering that, because I'll be moving there shortly.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I never paid more than ~$160 for CA plates/stickers.

The same vehicles, when registered here in CO, were $350 and $300, respectively.

Thanks for your comment about "cheap WA plates". I've been wondering that, because I'll be moving there shortly.

My parents paid $15 for their plates. Doesn't matter how expensive their cars are. Oh, and you don't pay income tax in Washington either. It's not cheap (they have high gas prices and high sales tax) but at least you are being taxed on your actual consumption (goods and services as well as fuel) instead of being taxed just because you live in Washington.

I just heard that California was high for vehicle registrations. Apparently I'm wrong, but I do think it's odd with all the California transplants that I don't see many CA plates. Maybe they know we hate them and are trying to be inconspicuous!

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by the3Ds

My parents paid $15 for their plates. Doesn't matter how expensive their cars are. Oh, and you don't pay income tax in Washington either. It's not cheap (they have high gas prices and high sales tax) but at least you are being taxed on your actual consumption (goods and services as well as fuel) instead of being taxed just because you live in Washington.

I just heard that California was high for vehicle registrations. Apparently I'm wrong, but I do think it's odd with all the California transplants that I don't see many CA plates. Maybe they know we hate them and are trying to be inconspicuous!

Awesome, $15 sounds great! Even if it's more than that, I'll just be glad that it's cheaper than CO and/or CA.

I'm fine with being taxed on consumption, I think I'd rather have it that way.

You don't see CA plates all the time? Sheesh, I think I see at least one on each car trip. It kind of makes me wonder what they are doing here, even though I'm a CA transplant myself. I've grown to hate them as well.