What part of town does the Northfield Shopping Center pull from? (Denver: crimes, houses)

[murof]

Originally Posted by zionvier

I've been there a couple times, but mainly just to meet a friend for a beer and it makes a good middle point for us to meet. I also used the word 'couple' instead of 'few' intentionally. I live on the far east side of Thornton, just on the other side of I76 from the northwest corner of the Rocky Mountain Arsenal, so I'm only 10 miles away, but I continually forget that it's even an option when I need to buy something.

I just discovered there is a huge amount of housing up in this area,on the East side of I-76, North of the Rocky Mountain Arsenal. Tons of newer homes, condos, and townhouses. I-76 is probably a divider that separates this area from the abundance of shopping in Thornton.So I think this population looks toward Northfield for its movies andand luncheons with friends, maybe. Do you like living up in that area?Where do you grocery shop?

[MantaRay]

The nice thing about the housing in that area is that there is a good mix of housing style with the rear garage and a nice element of having a big park in the middle of the neighborhood. Particularly the Reunion neighborhood on E 104th.

[zionvier]

Originally Posted by murof

I just discovered there is a huge amount of housing up in this area,on the East side of I-76, North of the Rocky Mountain Arsenal. Tons of newer homes, condos, and townhouses. I-76 is probably a divider that separates this area from the abundance of shopping in Thornton.So I think this population looks toward Northfield for its movies andand luncheons with friends, maybe. Do you like living up in that area?Where do you grocery shop?

The area up there is actually really nice. I'm just on the west side of 76, but my friend bought just north of the arsenal. He and I both do most of our grocery shopping on the way home from work. You do have to swing around the arsenal to get to the N-S shopping area. I think most of the time my friend runs into Thornton via 104th when he needs something. Most of my shopping is done in the 104th & washington and 120th and Colorado areas. Especially since I go that general direction for work. Overall I enjoy living more "out of the way" than in the middle of it all. It's nice to not have to wait forever just to pull out of my development due to traffic. It's also REALLY easy to get to the airport no matter what time it is, rush hour doesn't effect the area up there much. [But if you have to go to Denver, you're still stuck with I76 to I25, so you're still stuck with the mouse trap area.]

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by MantaRay

Having only visted Denver and Northfield but not lived there, I have to point out that one of the reasons I visited Northfield was, aside from the fact a concert was being held there at the time, it is part of a cutting edge trend of Town Center style shopping centers, otherwise knows as Lifestyle Centers. It is a departure from the normal mall by offering an outdoors feel. And in Denver, where people move to ENJOY the outdoors, it is a fitting thing to have.

The point is that when you look around the metro area, you have Belmar in Lakewood for the southwest metro, you have Southlands in Aurora for the southeast metro, you have Westminster Promenade/Shops at Walnut Creek in Westminster for the northwest metro, and then there is Northfield Stapleton for the northeast metro, northern parts of Aurora, and downtown area. You have to remember a lifestyle center with an outdoor feel is not an indoor mall. The concert at Northfield proved that to me.

I am old enough to have seen all of these "concepts" come and go. First it was "shopping centers" that replaced downtowns, then malls, now these "Lifestyle Centers". What goes around comes around. The LC in Boulder is having trouble making it. Several restaurants have closed in the short time it's been open. Bottom line for me: I just want to go and buy what I need/want. I have a lifestyle, and a shopping center does not play a large part in it.

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I am old enough to have seen all of these "concepts" come and go. First it was "shopping centers" that replaced downtowns, then malls, now these "Lifestyle Centers". What goes around comes around. The LC in Boulder is having trouble making it. Several restaurants have closed in the short time it's been open. Bottom line for me: I just want to go and buy what I need/want. I have a lifestyle, and a shopping center does not play a large part in it.

There is a such thing as market saturation. But setting that aside for a minute, this concept is more sustainable because it is more convenient. During the '80s and '90s, suburban planners generally planned with a separation of uses- all houses in one area, all retail at and surrounding a mall in another area, parks in another area. Denver planned well in keeping parks in the midst of neighborhoods. And now that we have come full circle to the way people USED to shop- at a town center type of place, and combined that with the convenience of it being nearby rather than having to drive all the way downtown to experience it- people will be hard pressed to go back the other way. Plenty of people have a lifestyle as well, and they DO go out to eat and DO frequent salons and other businesses, ie. they play a large part in it. Denver has been on the cutting edge by incorporating mixed-use throughout the city. It had already done so as far as mixing park space/recreation use with residential use. Now it has been adding the retail as well, and the Northfield's and Shops at Walnut Creek's and Belmar's are the example.

At one time there was downtown and there were the suburbs that people were newly moving to. Both of those are now long-time components of a city. Of course there are ex-urbs, but generally speaking people more and more don't like sitting long periods in traffic. Therefore expect city growth to happen via density growth moreso than land growth. This is what they term "smart growth." And since that will be the case, don't expect the concept of lifestyle centers or mixed-use developments to disappear the way many '80s style sprawl malls have. And that has nothing to do with 50 restaurants trying to open in a 10 block area and oversaturating the market and some of them closing down.

In town centers, indeed what has gone around has come back around. But don't expect them to go around again. City size and density won't let it. The town center model is here to stay. We found out the hard way that it works better, and now we have learned our lesson. And Denver has taught the lesson in many respects to American cities needing to learn.

[Katiana]

If you think this stuff is unique to Denver, you need to get out more.

[Murmur]

I've wondered this as well, and think many of you hit on some key points. In theory, it is well placed - near Stapleton and Park Hill means that there should be some rather wealthy shoppers, and it's close to I-70 and such.

However, aside from the Target, and perhaps the Outdoor World, there doesn't seem to be much traffic there. Living in the general area, and finding that Target has better prices for groceries than KS and Safeway, I get there fairly often. Maybe I'm not going when most people are, but there should be more traffic there than they get.

I think the problem lies in the stores themselves and old habits. As stated earlier, the Macy's is...meh. It's not bad, but if you want more selection and the higher-end merchandise, you have to go to a different one. I think the truly wealthy of Stapleton and Park Hill realize this, and go to Cherry Creek, even if it's farther away.

I've noticed this in Nashville as well. When I first moved there in 2002 there was a new mall with a lot of stores in the middle of a large residential area that was growing. Where did the wealthy people shop? Anywhere but that mall. After 3 years, the higher end stores closed. By 2007 spaces were being rented out to insurance companies, and the mall itself became a "town center." It's slated for demolition now.

I hope that won't happen with Northfield, but it needs some cache that it currently doesn't have in order to bring more people to that area.

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by Katiana

If you think this stuff is unique to Denver, you need to get out more.

Maybe like to the Avenues Forsyth (GA) or The Avenues Murfreesboro (TN) or maybe to Firewheel Town Center in metro Dallas or Reston in metro DC or Otay Ranch Town Center in Chula Vista (metro San Diego)? The reason the phenomenon is here to stay is BECAUSE this stuff is not unique to Denver and big population isn't unique to Denver. Denver just happens to be a big population city doing it left and right, so kudos to Denver for that.

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by Murmur

I've wondered this as well, and think many of you hit on some key points. In theory, it is well placed - near Stapleton and Park Hill means that there should be some rather wealthy shoppers, and it's close to I-70 and such.

However, aside from the Target, and perhaps the Outdoor World, there doesn't seem to be much traffic there. Living in the general area, and finding that Target has better prices for groceries than KS and Safeway, I get there fairly often. Maybe I'm not going when most people are, but there should be more traffic there than they get.

One thing to remember is that Stapleton really isn't even half built yet. The number of people in the Northfield market area is only going to increase going forward.

[denverian]

They're going to build more residential area just north of Northfield, and it looks like they're already putting in streets. I believe this is the next area where they'll be building houses once the area north of Central Park is filled in, which it's getting close to built out.

I think the movie theater does well - it's about the only place we go to movies, and it seems to be busy. I doubt the Macys will make it though - I've never seen it busy. I think part of the problem may be that it's just not easy to get in and out of Northfield from I-70. They have an interchange planned for Central Park Blvd. and once that's done (probably years from now) that will probably solve that problem.