One Suggestion to Those Who Plan To Move Here (Denver: real estate, HOA)

[Spot]

My wife and I are moving to Denver from Tucson, AZ without jobs lined up. I can assure you the job market here in AZ is much worse than Denver. My wife has dual degrees in MIS and Operations Management, as well as 10 years experience in accounting. The best job she could find when we moved here 3 years ago paid $30k. That's down from around $65k at her previous position in Phoenix.

She has been doing quite a bit of research into the job market in Denver and it certainly looks promising by comparison.

[CosmicWizard]

steveindenver wrote:

IT (horrible and outdated moniker) has always paid less in Denver than elsewhere.

If you think IT salaries are low in Denver, you've apparently not held an IT position in Hampton Roads, VA ( Norfolk and surroundings ). Due to the pervasive military presence in that area, salaries across the board tend to be lower than most other parts of the country. In addition to the active military, there is also a high population of retired military. There are many men & women in their early 40s with a military pension and IT training, who can easily afford to work for wages well below the national average. When the low wage is added to the military pension, those folks are making out very well. For everybody without a military pension, the low wages just plain suck! But IT positions were relatively easy to find ( at least they were in '06 when I left the area ).

PS: Just to be clear, I have nothing but respect for the retired military. Those folks deserve every nickle of their pensions....and then some. They put up with alot of crap during their time in the military.

[formercalifornian]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

IT (horrible and outdated moniker) has always paid less in Denver than elsewhere. People want to live here. I don't know of anyone hiring in Denver; I am certain someone is though.

Contract rates have fallen quite a bit actually. People are taking advantage of the market and laid off workers are selling themselves as consultants at cut rate prices (with subpar work that will eventually weed them back into the fulltimers do nothing and do it poorly market).

We have found ourselves bidding against a larger pool of companies for work and being asked three and four times to revise the bid downwards in terms of price. As for body shoppers, almost everything we have had come up since December for renewal has been renewed but with a 10-30 percent chop off the rates -- and everyone is cancelling or delaying projects and expenditures -- most have started to or will very soon be laying people off.

Of course none of the above work is in Denver. It just isn't worth playing in Denver because the rates have always been so low; with the exception of a few companies.

That somewhat contradicts what my spouse has shared about his employer's contract work. They have seen a few project delays, but all of the consultants are still fully-engaged and then some. Few of their local clients have done significant lay-offs, and a couple have even been hiring. There has been a bit of a slow-down in new hardware orders, but professional services at all levels is running full-steam ahead.

Furthermore, I must argue with you about salaries here in Denver. In systems architecture, at least, they are absolutely competitive with both coasts.

[steveindenver]

That somewhat contradicts what my spouse has shared about his employer's contract work. They have seen a few project delays, but all of the consultants are still fully-engaged and then some. Few of their local clients have done significant lay-offs, and a couple have even been hiring. There has been a bit of a slow-down in new hardware orders, but professional services at all levels is running full-steam ahead.

Furthermore, I must argue with you about salaries here in Denver. In systems architecture, at least, they are absolutely competitive with both coasts.

Denver rates are already ****, I don't doubt they might be amongst the last to feel the pain.

Sys Arch is a broad description. I have no doubts that position pays more in other areas. Everything else does from jr dev to enterprise arch.

[formercalifornian]

All I can tell you is that his income increased and our cost-of-living decreased when we moved to Denver from the coast. The job is basically the same, and the promotion path is much more promising.

Your mileage may vary.

[ColoWeb]

Denver lays off 11 sheriff's deputies:
"Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper's administration today laid off 11 sheriff's deputies to close a mushrooming budget gap caused by the economic downturn and required other sheriff's employees to take three furlough days this year."

Src: Denver lays off 11 sheriff's deputies - The Denver Post

[Legs1357]

I agree with you. I was looking at craigslist and the jobs in general just aren't there. However, if you're a teacher I know that DPS (and I'm sure other districts in the area) are still hiring many teachers and other positions for the 09-10 school-year.

[Americana1st]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

...
What would you recommend specifically for me? I'm going to be graduating USC with a master's this May. Denver is where I want to live and start my career (as well as one other place that is a consideration). I was born and raised in Denver (okay, technically Aurora), it's still my permanent address, I still have my 303 phone number, and I have the option of living with my family while I continue to look for a job after I graduate if need be. In fact even if I had/get a job offer now in my field in LA (unemployment rate = 9.9%, btw) or elsewhere, it likely wouldn't start until September/October of this year, so I would be living at home for approximately 3-4 months after I graduate anyway. What should I do?

It sounds like you know what you 'should' do. Move to Denver! Live w/ your family! Look for a job! Keep your 303 phone number some more! You've got it made in the shade, and I'm thinking you don't know it!

What's your master's? Psychology? Just kidding you! Best of luck!

[vegaspilgrim]

Thanks, Americana. No, not psychology (thank goodness), accounting. Two more months from now I'll be back in Denver, ready to move on to the next phase of my life.

[ColoWeb]

Time flys! I will have to watch out for a guy driving around with a camera and stopping on every block in Aurora.