Newcomer's Perspective...5 months in (Denver, Lakewood: sales, living in, dangerous)

[steveindenver]

1. Turning left into the middle of the intersection is a common practice in any of the other 24 states I have lived in. Not so common here, but neither is "common sense"

Common practice or not, it remains illegal. You can generally pick out the folks from CA in traffic. They are the *******s who pull way out into the intersection then wait for the light to turn red and then go against the red light thereby ****ing up traffic for everyone else. Selfish pricks.

No, I yearn for LA drivers right about now. Either traffic is moving, or it isn't

I have no idea where in LA you drive, but where I drive in LA it sucks. Drivers are either at full throttle or on the brakes. Idiocy at a very high level.

David, I have never replaced a light on a car newer than 20 years old in Colorado. You sir just have bad luck.

Please, no more Californians complaining that they moved to Colorado and despite their best efforts to make our suburban sprawl as bad as Californias and everyone act as they do in SoCal they can't. This is not SoCal, yet -- and that is a great thing.

[Ghostgecko]

Yet another Denver Welcome Wagon...See how friendly and defensive people are here? You try to point out genuine things from a nice perspective, and they refuse to admit it. Grow up, you are a MAJOR city. You DO have problems. I never said it was the worst place to be in the world, but sheesh, I can admit I have problems. For some reason, people would rather just lash out than do something about their problems...seems kinda childish if you ask me.

Oh yeah, and I challenge you to make a left turn from behind the line, which you state is the legal spot. It's awfully hard to turn that angle without ending up on the wrong side of the road. And you sir, are wrong, in the case of the driver's manual, they are talking about blocking traffic when the light changes. NOT during the execution of a turn. But GW had a way with words too...I guess all the OBGYNS are happy now that they can practice their love for women.

But then again, I guess all the other states don't know what their doing. Nope, Denver must be the only city that has it right by law. Oh, did I mention, someone else tonight, Park Meadows Mall, 7pm, no headlights. Last time I checked, that is illegal. And although you "Braveheartedly" defend the turning left thing, no mention of the other pertinent things I mentioned...hmmm a manipulation of words perhaps? Or did you just miss all the other valid points of my post.

Not that I care. If this were a court case, I see no evidence to go against the plaintiff...Just repeated talks of turning left. Let's face it, this city has the intelligence of a wet dishcloth on the road. Get mad all you want. But stay the heck out of my way. Cause when an accident happens, I'll just be flicking the paint chips off my bumper, and shrugging...sorry officer, they didn't follow the law, after all.

I like my odds with a left turn as opposed to rolling in a dark colored vehicle with no headlights, or the other facts I mentioned...I've been thinking of starting a website of hd video traffic incidents, adding high speed circus music and sound effects. Anyone watch my clips if I do...I would block out the plates to protect the idiot's identity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I NEVER make a mistake on the road, but nowhere near the average frequency of a mile-high driver...

Your car is even shaking it's head...

[steveindenver]

I challenge you to make a left turn from behind the line, which you state is the legal spot.

Oddly -- it happens all over the world tens of thousands of times a day.

20 something kids making excuses for how poorly they drive don't change reality. Sorry.

More to the point for the rest of your post - if you don't like it here. Leave. It really is that easy. Denver and Colorado are not SoCal, they are not the Northeast nor are they the midwest. People who do not have the abilty to adapt and instead must play the little ***** and complain at everything that is different have no place here nor anywhere.
Moderator cut: rude.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

I've done the Dulles to D.C. highway commute enough to know that idiots on the highway are not singular to Colorado.

In fact the worst drivers live around Santa Fe New Mexico. The U.S. in general is too lax with the ability to get a driver license and can as a whole be summed up into total ****ing idiots who drive whatever speed in whatever lane they damn well choose.

I've worked in parts of the world where people who drive like they do here are often run off the road or simply shot. Not a bad idea really.

Ever driven in Brazil? I just got back from there and am thankful I don't have to drive there. I was on a mission trip and one woman asked us to pray for her brother who was in a motorcycle accident. I thought, "No wonder"! I have no idea what their accident rates are, but I'd wage they're much higher than in the US.

Originally Posted by esya

Katiana:

I think it's funny you are also from Champaign. I came here the second time from there, after about 4 years there. The attitude there was, why did you leave Colorado? The second question was, "whose your family here?" If you had not been there three generations you didn't really count. That did not bother me, I liked it even though I did not qualify!

Yeah, well, I never felt like I fit into Champaign.

Originally Posted by reginhild

Ghostgecko, I think you are talking about all the drivers imported to Colorado from Los Angeles.

I noticed in Colorado Springs some people know how to drive in snowy and icy conditions others don't. I'd bet that the ones who do know how are from Colorado originally or have lived in snowy states. I'd bet the ones who don't know how moved here from Los Angeles!

I learned to drive in the snow in Illinois. I came here in 1980, and was amazed how many people had no idea of the simplest snow-driving skills.

[downtownnola]

Ghostgecko:

I agree with alot of your points, even some of your points regarding the drivers here, but what I don't understand is how you can move here from south Florida and criticize Denver drivers? I just returned from a vacation in Ft. Lauderdale/Maimi. Yikes! I couldn't beleive some of the downright bizzare things I saw on the roads down there... especially in Miami!

There is absolutely no flow to the traffic in that city. I-95 is an absolute mess. One minute, you're going 80 getting passed by 75% of the cars on the road, and the next minute everyone is slamming on their breaks going 50. The traffic flow was so inconsistent that it was almost nausiating. I couldn't ever figure out why there were so many unneccessary traffic jams. Lane drifting was also a huge problem. The taxi cabs think they can drive however they want, which at times included driving in 2 lanes at one time. I'd say that aproximately 2% of the drivers know what a turn signal is.

I can't count on both hands the number of times that I saw cars come within inches of running into each other: mostly because no one was paying attention and everyone was yapping away on their cell phones! Talk about a dangerous mix of driving styles in Miami: the tourists from out of town who have no idea where they are going, the retirees who drive 15 under the speed limit in the fast lane, the foreign taxi cab drivers who think that they can drive in the same reckless fashion that they did in the country they came from, and everyone else who are watching all of the madness go on around them. All I can say is: get your horn checked before driving in Miami, because you will need it!

I'm not saying that driving in Denver is perfect- we have our fair share of idiots, but I've driven in places where the driving is much worse. Miami is on the very top of that list.

[Ghostgecko]

Oh no, I never said Miami was better! But I had a better experience there myself than I have regularly here. Of course, I lived in the Keys. but just saying, there seems to be a lack of smarts on the road. I guess that's the better way to put it. People just don't know what the heck they're doing...

Tonight, coming back on 6th East from the mountains...ah so peaceful and quiet...THREE people driving with the sun down at 65 mph with no headlights on. Two people changed lanes without signalling...ah, I grow tired of this.

I did note how quickly to anger people resort. Look, if you can't talk about things, you're just proving my point about the attitude here. Some of the people on here are actually building me up to want to stay here, but the previous comment about me being a little "whiner" is totally out of context. What I am stating is merely from my own observations.

In fact, a person who IM'd me the other day asking me if they think they should come....I didn't attack them, they pointed what I said on the forum, and I told them they need to come and visit first and see if the points of view line up with the facts they uncover on their own. I guess that means I'm not just whining, I didn't just bash Denver, I told them to make up their own mind. You see, the posting isn't called..."This is what Denver is so STAY AWAY..." It's called a "Newcomer's Perspective" You may think my perspective needs polishing. Maybe the world in general just isn't friendly anymore...but that doesn't give another reason for people to be jerks.

I try to be a thermostat instead of a thermometer...but sometimes we all need a crank-up. It's hard to find that boost around here. From when I go to 24 hour fitness, till when I shut the door at the place I am staying, I find that people are just more concerned with themselves than responding to a totally friendly "Hello" I'm not stupid about it...I'm not Corky Romano or anything...just friendly. I get the "yeah, that's nice now MOVE ALONG" vibe. Oh, I forgot to mention. Everyone I have met who was friendly...(Kicker) was from other places and felt the same way. So much for misery loves company, in this case, it's friendliness loves company...

I guess what I am noticing is that people just don't seem to be educated or have confidence to drive road-wise here. The previous poster is right about the snow, I slid backwards down hills back in Indiana...I've hit ice and slid through intersections, and even since I've been here had some issues, as this is my first truck on ice...But I still can tell that very few people know how to drive in snow...

You have idiots doing 70 in a 4x4...um yeah, and that won't save you from skidding...And you have people doing 30 on the freeway when the ground is dry but you can "see white" in the grass. I think I'd put anybody from Indiana or the Chicago area against your winter drivers, anyday...Get ready to do the walk (WATCH OUT FOR THAT BLACK ICE) of shame off the stage. Our winters can make yours look weak.

Not saying coming back from FL hasn't been a wake up call, fell on ice a couple of times...darn Airwalks...they worked in FL...I had to laugh. My shoes have no traction to them anymore. Oh well. My butt hurts a few days and I get on...I just can't imagine after being paralyzed for life, having to punch the keys into that voicebox to say...." I was involved in an auto-accident. I had no headlights on and my car was black, and a truck hit me"

DEE DEE DEE.....

If Denver keeps me here, it'll be for the mountains...sad but true. Maybe in time, I can too, learn to be rude, slam doors in people's face, walk around with a scowl...nah. I'll just always be an outcast. But hey, just learn the difference between the chaka and the finger....sheesh! Hang loose and smile cuz, sista!

[Ghostgecko]

Stevie...forgot to mention man. I'm not all disagreements. Tonight I caught myself being more careful about turning left into intersections. I still think it's stupid, but you know what, if 90% of traffic is doing the opposite of what I want, my safety and theirs became paramount. The first couple of times I mumbled under my breath, but then it was like, oh well, just wait for the next green arrow anyway... Just thought you might like to know

[downtownnola]

Originally Posted by Ghostgecko

Oh no, I never said Miami was better! But I had a better experience there myself than I have regularly here. Of course, I lived in the Keys. but just saying, there seems to be a lack of smarts on the road. I guess that's the better way to put it. People just don't know what the heck they're doing...

Fair enough! I just wanted to write a "friendly reminder" that there are bad drivers everywhere, and there are idiots in every city (with Miami having an especially high percentage of clueless drivers). You're right about the people here having no driving skills in the snow- it's really kind of strange for a city that gets frequent winter storms.

I can see where you're having a major adjustment coming from the Keys. I've been to Key West twice, and it's a different world down there! Key West is a special place, and I absolutely loved the people. I loved the laid back, "One Human Family" attitude of the locals.

Hang in there. Who knows, in time you might find your niche in Denver and really grow to love the area.

[fisherman26]

[quote=steveindenver;7564018]Common practice or not, it remains illegal. You can generally pick out the folks from CA in traffic. They are the *******s who pull way out into the intersection then wait for the light to turn red and then go against the red light thereby ****ing up traffic for everyone else. Selfish pricks.


I saw this and was curious- are you talking about the FIRST person that's at the intersection/turning left, or the drivers lined up behind them?

I'm actually quite familiar with the common legalities/practices of traffic laws such as that (although they can obviously change state to state). Generally, the first car turning left at a lighted intersection can/should pull up (with wheels straight) to the halfway point of the intersection (or basically ready to drive into the nearest left lane on the far side of the median/blvd.), yielding to oncoming traffic, and then making the left turn. If the light goes red, that first car can still legally continue with the left turn, even if out at the mid-point. However, following that first car out and through the red light is illegal, and also generally causes gridlock, which is dangerous.

It also is generally illegal to be stopped while in an intersection, crossing solid white lines (such as on a turn bay), running stop signs/lights on right turns, not driving into the nearest path of travel, going over the speed limit (yes, even 5 over), following too close, etc., but these laws are not followed very well...

[D-town 720]

Originally Posted by Ghostgecko

Okay, so don't rip me to shreads, but wow, have my insights changed. First of all, if you read my old postings, you'll know I never came here with a bad attitude. But there are some things about Denver that have rattled my cage a lot since and I feel the need to share them.

I am trying not to list any of the attributes of my own situation, as I have taken about a 1/2 pay cut from what I made in Key West, and I don't find expenses to be 1/2 as much. My job being out in Broomfield, all dreams of getting an affordable place out there have fallen, as people are obsessed with things like status out here.

Looks more like Westminster, possibly Lakewood. I have lost just about all that I have that's worth something to stay out here, but I chose that route. 5 months from my move-in date, I have left my old place as it was in Aurora and I was in Broomfield, and the commute was terrible, as well as an escalating situation with roommates. So now the aspects are it's impossible to admit that moving here has cost me greatly, and still I stay.

I have found Aurora to be unappealing to me, and please natives of the city, don't take offense, it just wasn't my bag. The housing is more affordable, but neighbor-wise, you'll get what you pay for. I'm not a snob by any means, but it seems like "gangsta's paradise" was what Aurora really wanted it to be like. But that's everywhere in America right now. We're all hip-hop now, pretty fly for a ____guy! (or gal). Why we like using one of the richest countries in the world to emulate the lowest form of status in civilization is beyond me...but that's another posting altogether!

So as things didn't work out, and an unpredictable repair costing hundreds has occurred, I have found myself on the couch of a friend's house for the time being. Not what I pictured for sure. But you can't converse about the price of a dream unless you are willing to pay for it. And I have. I am now in Lakewood, which I find to be a refreshing side of Denver. Much more culture, more like a big city and not a big ghetto. Broomfield seems too overpriced to me, like an outer-convenience band suburb for Boulder. The apartments you get there are expensive, and you pay more for a mountain-view. I find that to be disrespectful, as all you get is the outside view, the inside remains the same.

Needless to say, my opinions of Denver have shifted. I, being from Indiana, have always been a courteous, friendly person towards people, even strangers, that need advice or assistance. People seem locked into their own worlds, needless of yours. Leaving Key West for this cold, dismal experience has left me thirsty for friendly people. Maybe it's just winter, but I am doubting it. Don't get me wrong, I have met some nice people, but most of them don't like living here either, and mostly for that exact reason. So much for that being just a newcomer's opinion...

The thing that keeps me here is the views, and the hikes. Just a few minutes away, and I am thousands of feet high and miles from the city. Yesterday, at Lookout Mountain things were just beautiful, and put into perspective. I get my release, my meditation, if you will from nature. But I wasn't alone. All the people on the paths were friendly. Could it be just cause they have to engage you by walking by? I notice little things like this, and it does get my attention that bikers, hikers, even dog-walkers are friendlier than the general, getting there populace of Denver.

And what is with the driving? Wow, I have driven alot of places, and I must tell you, I have never seen more backwards driving for such a large city in my life. People drive slow in the fast lane, fast in the slow lane, and change lanes without signals, drive without lights in the dark, pile WAYY too much on top of their vehicles, swerve around like they are on cough syrup or something. And being from Indiana I find it really annoying that on a left turn, people don't pull out into the intersection, like you are supposed to.

It seems that people always have to prove themselves to you...like if you are just passing them nonchalantly in traffic, they speed up with tiny dickie syndrome or something. They can't let you pass them. It's just a general attitude I have noticed here. And don't say it's all the out of state drivers. Nope, try again, CO plates more than often. The out of state drivers like me are probably just more frustrated as I am. Sadly, this whole city needs Driver's ED like no tomorrow, some of them shouldn't have a license. (Like the lady killed two in the taxi last week with 3 DUI's!) People have warned me I should kill someone before I go to court for traffic citations, as I'll get the book thrown at me...are you serious?

So, an opportunity has come for me to go to Indianapolis to be closer to home and family, and though I love the mountains, I have to think about it. Denver just isn't the western advanced good attitude outdoorsy city I read about in the websites back in Key West last year. I have a positive attitude, and engage each friendly person I meet with kindness, but most of them are from Indiana, such as the person I am staying with right now. Funny how us Hoosiers can find other kind Hoosiers even at a mile high and 1000 miles away.

I dont know what to say really. You dont even live in denver. You live in lakewood. Why do you refer to denver when talking about broomfield and lakewood?