Highlands Ranch Bashing (Denver, Lone Tree, Mead: home, bankruptcy, places to live)

[McGowdog]

Good point, Vegas. But I look at it another way. Those that live in south Central... I don't see that as white people can't or shouldn't go there. They just wont or have no need. Was that not an area that was once of a different demographic? I would imagine that any person of any skin color or any race or any ethnic background or any sect would want to live far west of there and maybe along the beach. But who can afford that? Not me, for one. Not ever. I would have had to have designed the Hamming Filter or perhaps been one of those Engineers in Chatsworth that designed nuclear weaponry to be able to afford to live on or near the beach or north of Willshire Blvd or down in the OC or...

But here's the problem with labelling or catagorizing a person by merely a skin color; I'll take mine for example-white. I'm white, but I'm not Norwegian or Italian or Polish or Slovic or Russian or Jewish (well, now we're talking about a sect too) or French or English or... My name is actually Scottish and not Irish. So if you go far enough back, You'll probably trace my roots to there. I would imagine it's the same for black and brown people. Some Hispanics and/or Latinos are from Mexico and some are not. There's Cuba, or our very own Puerto Rico, or many of the Carribean areas or South America... Then you've got Spain and Purtugal... It's just too complicated. Some are probably actually from what we now call California or Arizona or or New Mexico or Colorado or Florida or... And what about Native Americans! Another thread for another day.

I agree with the poster that pointed out the human nature and how we tend to congregate. It's no secret that many people of different races like to congregate together for perhaps financial reasons, if nothing else. Look at New York City; there's Greenwich Villiage (Italian, right?), Roxbury (Irish), Astoria (Greek), Spanish Harlem, Harlem... So it's no secret that many groups of people congregate that way. So what's the big deal if white people congregate the same way. But many of us are NOT what is considered in the minority in this country and perhaps advantaged due to history, culture, laws, etc.

The only thing that would concern me about Highlands Ranch would be whether or not minorities or people of different demographics, socio-economic status, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. were treated poorly. In this day and age, that would be bad. But what's the problem? Are you afraid you're gonna get invited in to watch reruns of Hee Haw and Brady Bunch and be forced to drink Grape Juice and eat boiled carrots, baked potatoes and oven-roasted meatloaf?

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by CMartel2

I actually like this part of Highlands. I've lived all over, and on the whole, I just find homogenous communities work better. Ultimately that's where culture comes from, anyway. Granted, over the course of decades to hundreds of years, but so it goes....

Re: the bold comment; we know, and I've already stated previously that we disagree on this. I wasn't just referring to cultural diversity, but rather economic and social diversity as well. I would say that the majority of adults in HR have college degrees and make at least high 5-figures. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but when the majority of people also have the same economic and social background in a place, to me, a place becomes a little more uninteresting.

BTW, I strongly believe there is nothing cultural/cultured about HR, is that where you would take foreign friends to show them what "suburban Americans" look like?

Originally Posted by CMartel2

The whole way a lot of people describe "diversity" puzzles me a bit, too. I can find plenty of diversity in the guy sitting next to me who looks just about alike. It just requires that I look a little deeper than skin deep.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by CMartel2

What I don't like about Highlands is the little room they left for placing trees and the like. A little more variety in home construction would be nice, as well. All generally nice homes, of course. Just a bit more room to add some variety would be nice.

Agreed, and at the current moment it is hard to imagine what HR, or any newer suburban area would look like once the landscaping is mature. That's one of the other reasons I don't like new suburbia, I don't want to wait 20-30 years to see mature trees in my neighborhood.

Originally Posted by CMartel2

Can't find a much better area to raise a family, either.

I don't completely understand this comment, and I hear it all the time. Does that mean that my hood is any less good to raise a family? Besides the rec centers, and high scoring schools, which are great, what else makes it good to raise a family?

My girlfriend just summed up HR in a few sentences:
"It's all ugly new houses. It's where all the snobs live."

I'm going to plead the fifth on her comments.

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

There is NO part of Denver where I would feel too scared to drive through in the day time.

Been to Elyria/Swansea lately? How 'bout Westwood? I toured those hoods recently (during the day), and even I was a little uncomfortable.



Basically, my point is, that I'd rather have my family live in a place that more accurately looks like the real world. Not some magical place where everything is "new, fresh, clean, and safe". I want my kids to be prepared for the real world and all they can see in it, I wouldn't want them being shocked if they saw someone of a different race or heard someone speaking a different language, or be shocked to see what poverty or success look like. IMO, living in HR would nearly equate living in the sticks, if you never left either one you would never see how "other people" live -- I don't want to shelter my kids, or myself for that matter.

[bhcompy]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

Agreed, and at the current moment it is hard to imagine what HR, or any newer suburban area would look like once the landscaping is mature. That's one of the other reasons I don't like new suburbia, I don't want to wait 20-30 years to see mature trees in my neighborhood.

I've heard that young trees make more oxygen.

I don't completely understand this comment, and I hear it all the time. Does that mean that my hood is any less good to raise a family? Besides the rec centers, and high scoring schools, which are great, what else makes it good to raise a family?

My girlfriend just summed up HR in a few sentences:
"It's all ugly new houses. It's where all the snobs live."

I'm going to plead the fifth on her comments.

Lots of kids, lots of parks/open area for kids to play, lot less non-residential traffic to worry about, less crime concerns, etc. It's no secret that the more mature a neighborhood becomes the less children there generally are in it.

Also, the houses aren't that new anymore. Many of the areas are over 20-25 years old.

Basically, my point is, that I'd rather have my family live in a place that more accurately looks like the real world. Not some magical place where everything is "new, fresh, clean, and safe". I want my kids to be prepared for the real world and all they can see in it, I wouldn't want them being shocked if they saw someone of a different race or heard someone speaking a different language, or be shocked to see what poverty or success look like. IMO, living in HR would nearly equate living in the sticks, if you never left either one you would never see how "other people" live -- I don't want to shelter my kids, or myself for that matter.

I grew up in poverty, in the ghetto, as a minority in the neighborhood, in a house with "character" because it was built in the 1930s and drafty as hell without any modern amenities(multiple bathrooms, bedrooms large enough to play in, air conditioning, new insulation, double paned windows, a garage, etc). I don't want to subject my children to that, because it wasn't fun at all. I want them to be able to play outside and not behind a chainlink fence on the yard to keep the riffraff and strays out. I want them not to have bars on their windows or have to look out of a security door on the front of the house. I want them to have a park clear of homeless folk and drug users. I want them to live nearer to their friends than I did, and have friends that desire to come over to our house rather than always going over there.

It's not sheltering them to have them grow up there. Sheltering is a parental decision outside of that. It's easy to expose kids to life without placing them somewhere that wouldn't be as desireable to live. Kids aren't blind to observation, especially if you fill them in yourself.

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

I've heard that young trees make more oxygen.

Lots of kids, lots of parks/open area for kids to play, lot less non-residential traffic to worry about, less crime concerns, etc. It's no secret that the more mature a neighborhood becomes the less children there generally are in it.

Also, the houses aren't that new anymore. Many of the areas are over 20-25 years old.



I grew up in poverty, in the ghetto, as a minority in the neighborhood, in a house with "character" because it was built in the 1930s and drafty as hell without any modern amenities(multiple bathrooms, bedrooms large enough to play in, air conditioning, new insulation, double paned windows, a garage, etc). I don't want to subject my children to that, because it wasn't fun at all. I want them to be able to play outside and not behind a chainlink fence on the yard to keep the riffraff and strays out. I want them not to have bars on their windows or have to look out of a security door on the front of the house. I want them to have a park clear of homeless folk and drug users. I want them to live nearer to their friends than I did, and have friends that desire to come over to our house rather than always going over there.

It's not sheltering them to have them grow up there. Sheltering is a parental decision outside of that. It's easy to expose kids to life without placing them somewhere that wouldn't be as desireable to live. Kids aren't blind to observation, especially if you fill them in yourself.

Thank you, bhcompy, for a clear and coherent response free from attacks. I clearly see your points, if there were more rebuttals like yours here on the forum, it would be a far more civil place.

While my current neighborhood is nothing like the one you grew up in, you do a great job of explaining the positives of a place like HR, almost to the point where I'm ready to stop my bashing.

I'm still not completely sold on "real suburban living", and I probably won't ever be, but I'm glad it works for you and wish you and your family continued happiness.

[rkb0305]

I don't completely understand this comment, and I hear it all the time. Does that mean that my hood is any less good to raise a family? Besides the rec centers, and high scoring schools, which are great, what else makes it good to raise a family?

It is a nice place to raise a family because it is full of other families. It was easy to find a network of other moms and kids when we moved here. There are several MOMS and MOPS groups. And there are places to take the kids that are free (or included in the HOA) - 4 indoor pools, 4 outdoor pools, endless parks and trails, and the fountains at Civic Green Park in the summer, all for no extra charge. Also tons of different classes and activities at the rec centers, all close to home.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

Been to Elyria/Swansea lately? How 'bout Westwood? I toured those hoods recently (during the day), and even I was a little uncomfortable.

Haha, I knew someone would come up with a contrary example. No, I haven't been to those areas recently (actually I've never been to Elyria/Swansea). And if you say it's bad, then it must be really bad... I'll take your word for it. But point is, even these bad 'ol neighborhoods of Denver are very small areas compared to the vast sea of ghettoes in Los Angeles that have mile after mile after mile of off-limits territory.

[vegaspilgrim]

Another thing I don't understand-- why they heck does is matter how "big" Highlands Ranch is? What difference does it make whether you have one master planned super subdivision, divided into many small subdivisions, the only thing having in common is the "Highlands Ranch" brand name-- vs having an identically sized area of tract home suburbs with just as many people living there, except having a dozen or more different subdivisions? Let's take my neck of the woods-- south/southeast Aurora (80013, 80015, 80016), as an example. Let's pretend all of south/southeast Aurora was called "Aurora Ranch." You've got Mission Viejo, Meadow Hills, Woodgate, Shenandoah, Piney Creek, Smoky Hill, Pheasant Run, Summer Valley Ranch, Piney Creek Village, Tuscany, Jackson Farms, The Farm, Siena, Greenfield, Saddle Rock, Tallyn's Reach, Saddle Rock North, Blackstone Country Club, Southshore, Wheatlands, Wheatgrass, .... who else did I forget? Let's pretend these same subdivisions there ranging from the late 70's to the 2000s were exactly like they are now, except on the marquee sign entering into each subdivision it had, "Saddle Rock... at Aurora Ranch," "Tuscany... at Aurora Ranch," etc. No matter how you carve it up or name it politically, it's all the same on the reality of the ground. Whoop di do... Highlands Ranch is so "big."

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Haha, I knew someone would come up with a contrary example. No, I haven't been to those areas recently (actually I've never been to Elyria/Swansea). And if you say it's bad, then it must be really bad... I'll take your word for it. But point is, even these bad 'ol neighborhoods of Denver are very small areas compared to the vast sea of ghettoes in Los Angeles that have mile after mile after mile of off-limits territory.

True, re: Los Angeles. I went to Watts once to see some accumulated hail once, (accumulated, we're talking 6+ inches here, a rarity in So. Calif, and being a weather/climate buff, I just needed to see it), and yeah, nobody outside of the people that live there have any business there. If you or anybody else is brave enough to go, DO NOT slow down in residential areas. You'll have an armed salesman approaching your car door in no time.

Anywho, you're right, the Denver "ghettos" are small, thankfully; and they gave me an uneasy feeling that I actually don't get in North Aurora, Montbello, etc.

I'll bet you didn't name all the Aurora subs from the top of your head, or did you? You make quite the valid point there.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I'll bet you didn't name all the Aurora subs from the top of your head, or did you? You make quite the valid point there.

Of course I did. I know these parts like the back of my hand. I'm sure I left out a few though.

[gangexpert]

I agree alot of my friends in HR are going bankrupt and HR has ALOT of crime such as drugs and gang activity that the cops dont even know about the nightlife in HR is close to life in aurora for some people. I have had guns pulled on me here....i have been jumped here....so dont assume that this is such a yuppie town i aint saying that there aint be yuppies here cuz there are but not as much as ppl think.