I'm outta here! (Denver, Thornton, Highlands Ranch: townhomes, neighborhood, income)

[FunkyMonk]

Originally Posted by reginhild

Asking the same questions again.

Yes I had a job lined up and I was there for about 5 months.

The job turned out to be very unpleasant too, it laid lots of people off and cut back our hours, but that's a whole other story.

I have moved to lots of places with no job and no money before. I don't let it cloud my vision of things or cramp my style.

[MantaRay]

I've visited Denver, LA, San Diego, and SF and liked all of them except LA. For me, tpp priority is plenty of bike trails connecting various parts of town and pedestrian friendliness. Denver has interconnecting trails all over the city. LA is crap in that area. San Diego has trails in parts of the city, like Mission Beach for example, but Chula Vista has trails/sidewalks that run throughout the city. SF has plenty of trails in Golden Gate Nat. Rec area and Golden Gate Park and of course the one going across the Golden Gate Bridge and also along the beach at the western edge of town.

It's been said that Denver is sprawled. But there's something people need to consider when speaking about sprawl. I lived in Atlanta for several years and it is one of THE most sprawled cities in America. What specifically makes it so is 1)lack of multiple traffic routes, 2)a history of suburban houses being built on lots too big for a city over 3 million, 3)everybody going one way in the morning and one way in the evening. What I've noticed about Denver is that it has plenty of multiple access routes, particularly with the grid street pattern everywhere. Most of its suburban homes are built on small lots, which increases suburban density and makes for more efficient use of water resources. And Denver is built in nodes, so everybody is not going downtown in the morning and to the suburbs in the evening. I drove to Boulder from Denver one morning and plenty of traffic was going there. I drove past the Denver Tech Center area from closer to downtown one morning and plenty of traffic was going in the same direction I was. There are nodes at Westminster, Lakewood, Aurora, etc. Traffic was dispersed. So this is one of those things like living in NYC and then moving to a city of 2 or 3 million and saying it feels like a small town. It isn't REALLY a small town, just smaller than NYC. So Denver isn't really all that sprawled when you actually look at the factors that make up or exacerbate sprawl. Even SF, an urbanist's paradise, had horrendous traffic coming in from the Oakland area and the South SF area in the morning and going back out in the evening and people driving relatively long distances to go to work. EVERY big city is sprawled when you actually look at it that way. So it isn't like Denver is sprawled in that way and other big cities are not. Wealthy people live in Manhattan. Millions fo others commute in from surrounding cities. Sprawl. The point I'm trying to make is that there are specific things that identify sprawl in a way that makes for MEANINGFUL comparisons between big cities, things like multiple access routes, node planning, suburban lot size, pedestrian amenities and networks. I saw a list of the 100 most congested cities in America (traffic wise) and Denver was 18 on the list. Denver is the 21st largest metropolitan statistical area in the US. Denver's sprawl isn't that bad.

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

But do I think everybody should live in Denver? Hell no! I think people on this forum need to start being more critical and more realistic (and a good way to start is by looking at my photo tours which show what Denver "REALLY" looks like), so that prospective movers who probably won't end up liking Denver, like yourself, can save themselves a ton of trouble and get all the facts before they invest their time and money moving there. Imagine if I had posted my photo tours before you moved to Denver, and you looked at all of them-- heck, I probably would have scared you off and you never would have moved to Denver in the first place! I think especially given these times, given the economy, people should not just randomly move to Denver unless if they have a damn good reason to do so. Denver can be a difficult city to really "get into," if you know what I mean. Job-wise, people-wise, climate-wise, etc. It's definitely an acquired taste. So I welcome all legitimate criticism. What I don't welcome though, is preachy moral judgments (especially coming from another 20-something year old), snobby, pretentious attitudes, and absurd, factually incorrect stereotypes. And unfortunately, that's exactly what you've been dishing out at us, so no wonder why some want to bite back.

I agree that your photo tours show the "real" Denver, places like Parker Rd and Federal Blvd. DenverAztec only shows the areas near Downtown/Capitol Hill and makes Denver look like it's nothing but Victorian mansions and highrises.

[Augie Daugie]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

Other issues people always bring up are illegal immigrants in California and arizona, that doesn't bother me either. The US has always been a huge melting pot founded by Euro-immigrants in the first place. Not to mention that the southwest used to be part of Mexico until the Lousiana purchase. I think having people of all races, speaking different languages, from all over the world is what the USA is all about.

The Southwest was part of Mexico for many years after the Louisiana Purchase. In the late 1840s, the U.S. launched an unjust war on Mexico, with the hopes of annexing the entire country to obtain its mineral wealth. When the Americans captured Mexico City, the Mexican government had no choice but to give in the U.S. demands - resulting in the Treaty of Hidalgo and the Mexican cessation of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by Augie Daugie

The Southwest was part of Mexico for many years after the Louisiana Purchase. In the late 1840s, the U.S. launched an unjust war on Mexico, with the hopes of annexing the entire country to obtain its mineral wealth. When the Americans captured Mexico City, the Mexican government had no choice but to give in the U.S. demands - resulting in the Treaty of Hidalgo and the Mexican cessation of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah.

OK...this must be said. What's your point here? Would you like us to continue beating ourselves up over a war that happened probably after any of our ancestors even came to this place? Should we just hand over those states to Mexico? Should we build a fence along the northern borders of those states and then tell all of the Mexican nationals that they can only live there? I for one am getting pretty sick of phrases like "unjust war" when it comes to the USA. Whether it's the Southwest, the Southern states talking about the "War of Northern Aggression" or what was done to the Native Americans. Can you name a country that hasn't treated people badly when they wanted their land? This is not an excuse for either side, but the fact remains that we have 50 official states here in this country. Whether we got them unjustly can be debated until you run out of breath. Before organizations like the United Nations came to be, there was very little debating, paperwork and handshakes when it came to land battles. It basically was "Big dog eats the little dog." In the case of the war with Mexico, the USA was the big dog.

[D-town 720]

Originally Posted by pistola916

I would rather live in SF than Denver anyday. If it doesn't have a subway, I can't live there.

Bart is a subway? thats news to me. Never heard that in the 30 years I lived in the SF bay area...

Just came from Sacramento and it isnt even in the same league as Denver. Sac is more like memphis, OKC or colombus. Mid size cities with suffering skylines, vacant downtowns, and a lack of fortune 500 companies.

[ottodog]

Originally Posted by Augie Daugie

The Southwest was part of Mexico for many years after the Louisiana Purchase. In the late 1840s, the U.S. launched an unjust war on Mexico, with the hopes of annexing the entire country to obtain its mineral wealth. When the Americans captured Mexico City, the Mexican government had no choice but to give in the U.S. demands - resulting in the Treaty of Hidalgo and the Mexican cessation of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah.

I say we give Texas back to Mexico and just call it even.

[D-town 720]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

I still remember when the Chargers totally whipped the Broncos. The Broncos were begging for mercy!

I actually don't care about football at all. Just thought I'd mention it though.

I'm not even bashing Denver. If it sounds like i'm bashing Denver, it's just because people on this forum are being rude to me. Seriously though, people in this Denver forum are not too friendly, so don't expect me to be.

By the way, why do you think the west coast sucks?

Funny you bash the mile high city which happens to be one of the stronger cites in this recession and leave to look for work in a state that is in serious economic trouble...

You also think that because you meet several people in denver who were rude to you that the whole city is rude...that is a fallacy

I dont think you got any brains...

[FunkyMonk]

Originally Posted by D-town 720

Funny you bash the mile high city which happens to be one of the stronger cites in this recession and leave to look for work in a state that is in serious economic trouble...

You also think that because you meet several people in denver who were rude to you that the whole city is rude...that is a fallacy

I dont think you got any brains...

What an awful post.

I didn't just "meet several people in Denver who were rude to me". I was out there every single day and I got a very good grasp of the vibe there. I literally must have met over a thousand people.

Some people in Denver are genuinely rude. But rudeness isn't really what it is. I would describe it more as an aloof, individualist, somewhat arrogant and detached attitude towards other people. It's like a "mountain man" attitude. The kind of personality that a guy living like a hermit deep in the mountains would have. Cold, stand-offish and not interested in being friendly or social.

Also, Denvers economy was way behind a lot of other places even before the recession. It might be getting hit slightly less hard than other places. But the economy in Denver is NOT great. Anyone searching for a job there knows this.

In fact I would like to see the proof that the economy in Denver isn't getting hit as hard. When I was there it seemed really dead and over saturated with college graduates.

I don't "got any brains" huh? I think you mean that I don't "have any brains." Nice try though.

[FunkyMonk]

Originally Posted by D-town 720

Bart is a subway? thats news to me. Never heard that in the 30 years I lived in the SF bay area...

Just came from Sacramento and it isnt even in the same league as Denver. Sac is more like memphis, OKC or colombus. Mid size cities with suffering skylines, vacant downtowns, and a lack of fortune 500 companies.

BART is a subway. Parts of it do go above ground like a train, but much of it is an enuderground subway, especially when you get into San Fran and Oakland it's all underground. There is a huge stretch of it that gos underwater too.

Are you sure you lived in the Bay Area for 30 years? And you don't know this? I can't believe that.

Sacramento, in my opinion, is one of the worst cities in Cal. I agree with you there.