Progressive/Liberal Suburbs with Good Schools? (Denver, Colorado Springs: homes, movies, university)

[Bradburn1]

I don't think traditional suburban design has to be isolating because I do know of non new urbanist neighborhoods that have a strong sense of community (Bow Mar comes to mind and they have HUGE lots). Sometimes you get lucky and end up with a group of very outgoing neighbors that make an effort. BUT, the design of new urbanist neighborhoods makes it more effortless to meet and socialize. You don't have to have someone organizing events in the neighborhood (although we have that too) to have a sense of community, you just run into people naturally.

Especially with how busy people all are these days, many people find it a chore to try to arrange their schedules to visit with friends who most likely live across town, so they just don't bother. The design of my neighborhood means if I want to socialize at any time of the day pretty much all I do is open my front door and holler (I have actually done this). That's a bit of hyperbole but really, if you go walking down the street in my neighborhood you are going to run into someone to socialize with, it's taken me 2 hours to get the mail before (it's a 5 minute walk) due to this effect.

[Scott5280]

Some places really are polar opposites socially in every way..When I moved from Boulder to Newport Beach..I felt like I had entered the twilite zone--and no the OC. is anything but gay friendly or even tolerant..so choosing a neighborhood for some people based on political leaning or social ideology is sometimes very important..Don't think they don't torture some neo-cons endlessly in some areas of Boulder as well. So it goes other ways..

[denverian]

Originally Posted by Bradburn1

I don't think traditional suburban design has to be isolating because I do know of non new urbanist neighborhoods that have a strong sense of community (Bow Mar comes to mind and they have HUGE lots). Sometimes you get lucky and end up with a group of very outgoing neighbors that make an effort. BUT, the design of new urbanist neighborhoods makes it more effortless to meet and socialize. You don't have to have someone organizing events in the neighborhood (although we have that too) to have a sense of community, you just run into people naturally.

Especially with how busy people all are these days, many people find it a chore to try to arrange their schedules to visit with friends who most likely live across town, so they just don't bother. The design of my neighborhood means if I want to socialize at any time of the day pretty much all I do is open my front door and holler (I have actually done this). That's a bit of hyperbole but really, if you go walking down the street in my neighborhood you are going to run into someone to socialize with, it's taken me 2 hours to get the mail before (it's a 5 minute walk) due to this effect.

Very true - we have friends who live in other parts of Stapleton and we rarely see them, but those who live within a couple blocks, we have regular interraction. In Summer, I like to sit on the front porch in the evening - within 5 min., somebody will walk by to talk to. Doesn't take much effort!

[denverian]

Originally Posted by Scott5280

Some places really are polar opposites socially in every way..When I moved from Boulder to Newport Beach..I felt like I had entered the twilite zone--and no the OC. is anything but gay friendly or even tolerant..so choosing a neighborhood for some people based on political leaning or social ideology is sometimes very important..Don't think they don't torture some neo-cons endlessly in some areas of Boulder as well. So it goes other ways..

That would be a shock! I never cared for Newport Beach. Costa Mesa has some funky/interesting and more liberal areas. Then of course there's Laguna - I always wondered where the "political boundary" between Newport/Laguna lies.

[Scott5280]

Originally Posted by denverian

That would be a shock! I never cared for Newport Beach. Costa Mesa has some funky/interesting and more liberal areas. Then of course there's Laguna - I always wondered where the "political boundary" between Newport/Laguna lies.

Pretty much everything south of Emerald Cove in Laguna south to just North of Montage tends to be more of a liberal area...Laguna Beach tends to be a lot like Boulder in many ways..Laguna Canyon is still filled with a few hold out artists..

[nmsegal]

Gosh, you don't check the site for awhile and you miss a vigorous debate. I chuckled through a few of these posts b/c questioning some of the qualities we'd consider in neighborhood doesn't sound very libertarian to me! Live and let live, hhhhm.

While I don't stand around debating politics with my neighbors every day, I've lived on both sides and it sure makes a difference. I'm not talking about wanting to live among entirely like-minded people -- I agree with the previous poster that street to street it's a crapshoot anyway and I like a healthy debate in any case -- but an area's political persuasion can have a huge impact on your quality of life and your ability to connect with people in meaningful ways. I moved from West Hollywood to Newport Beach, huge shocker. In OC I've been at cocktail parties where anti-semitic, anti-gay comments were made and I hated it. Labels are not my favorite thing but if I'm looking at up and moving my family somewhere (again, primarily b/c of the weather), I want to make the best choice possible. Call me crazy (I look forward to the poster who will!).

Oh, and I agree on the political divide btwn Newport and Laguna, though I've always thought of Emerald Cove being more leftie, perhaps b/c we know a few families who live there who are. My in-laws have had a biz in Laguna for decades and live in Newport and they talk about how driving down PCH makes them feel like they're entering another hemisphere.

[movementarian]

Originally Posted by nmsegal

We're considering a move from Portland to the Denver area. We love Portland but my hubby can't stand the gloom, he grew up in California and we lived there for many years before moving north.

We have two small kids so schools are a big issue, but I also want an open-minded community to raise our kids in. I know some inner-city neighborhoods probably have the right vibe, but I'm wondering about the suburbs. We don't mind brand new houses. We like Boulder but wonder with housing prices if we're just as well to go back to California (not what I want, he wants sun, I want seasons). Don't know about commuting, might be self-employed and just need to get to the airport now and then, or might have to get a job.

Thoughts anyone? We're lost!

Look at Louisville if you like Boulder, want suburbs, want good schools, don't desire a brand new house, and don't care about a possible hellish commute. I was shocked at how good their public schools seem. You don't see that too much.
Greatschools.net Search: louisville

Honestly, I'd put the liberal vs. conservative thing as the absolute lowest priority. Usually if someone is super political, they are not very open-minded. And how come nobody ever comes here looking for an apathetic and regressive neighborhood?

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by movementarian

And how come nobody ever comes here looking for an apathetic and regressive neighborhood?

We get one of those on the Colorado Springs or Colorado forums every once in awhile (other states' forums get them too), but the post will be worded a little differently.

I.E., "I'm looking for a place where I can have a decent sized piece of property, where I can fly my American flag, and not be ostracized for owning guns, or for being pro-life, and where my kids can be brought up in an atmosphere where they will be surrounded by people with morals and values. Having a strong religious influence in the area would be important too. And most of all, said area's residents will speak ENGLISH!!!!"

One thing I can say that I do like about people like that is that they could care less what people think of them.


P.S. Great post Denverian, (#37)

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I've been wondering those exact things.

What is it exactly (formula-wise) that makes a friendly neighborhood? Or is there a formula?

Well, I don't think there is a formula. I live in a friendly neighborhood. It is typical suburban (well, not the cookie cutter houses, but certainly the large [for here] lots, single-family, mostly married couples, etc). We have a neighborhood e-mail list serve, and messages go out all the time: stuff for sale, babysitters available, odd jobs wanted, what have you. We have an annual neighborhood picnic, there are neighborhood play groups among the people who have little kids, car pools to the schools, what have you. I have lived in neighborhoods much like this where nothing of the kind was going on.

Originally Posted by denverian

It's also interesting to see how neighborhoods evolve. What was the hip place for young families and kids in Thornton in the '60s is now a quiet area of mostly retirees. What was considered "ghetto" around City Park is now up and coming and desireable for young families. They all change over time. In 15 years, Stapleton will mostly be teenagers and parents in their 50s. Then as all the kids leave, then what? Or will new life keep moving in? Will it someday "go ghetto" (by that I mean dropping property values, no place for kids, people not keeping up their homes) or will it remain a desireable, Wash Park type 'hood?

Our neighborhood was built about 30 yrs ago and settled by mostly families with little kids. Some of the original owners are still here, and as homes have sold, generally families have moved in. So instead of all the kids being within about 5 years of each other, it's all over the place.

Originally Posted by the3Ds

Again, though...I don't think there is a connection between "liberal" and "friendly" or "cool" neighborhood. Does a "liberal" neighborhood mean people don't drive into their garages and put down the door? I could care less whether my neighbor is gay.
<snip>
Again, I'm still waiting for the definition of a "liberal/progressive" neighborhood. What does it look like? Do the kids ride their bikes in the streets and parents participate in the neighborhood school's PTO? "Friendly" does not equal "liberal." "Suburbia" does not equal "conservative." I think it's time for all of us to stop labeling ourselves as one political party or the other. The media outlets love to put us in a little box and dismiss us if we say "Merry Christmas" or have a US flag on the front of our house. Conservative tv and radio likes to label "liberals" as strung out ex hippies and gay rights activists beating up old ladies who show up at a rally.

For me, my only requirement for a good neighbor and a great neighborhood is it's lack of graffiti, people walking their dogs, kids riding bikes, yards maintained, a good school, and (hopefully) a lot of newspapers in the driveways in the morning. If you can provide that and participate in the keeping the neighborhood a nice place to live, I don't care if you're gay, part of a polygamist family, a Ron Paul supporter, a pot smoker or a "bible thumping conservative."

I agree entirely. My neighborhood trends towards the conservative. In general, there are yard signs for Republicans around during the election season (this past presidential election being an exception). People fly their flags on national holidays. Yet, there are some well known liberals living here, including his honor the Mayor of Louisville. There is a gay woman down the street who just adopted a baby; she seems well accepted.

Originally Posted by denverian

That's interesting and is what I thought in the first place. Traditional suburban design is rather isoating, and people are able to live in more isolation in traditional suburbs. I've also people say they think places like Stapleton are horrible because of the small lots - meaning they want large lots, don't want to see/interract with neighbors, etc. I'm sure some people are happier with less neighbor interraction, but like you, I wouldn't want to live any other way.

I think new urbanist neighborhoods attract people who want to be social, but that's not to say that suburban 'hoods attract isolationists. I lived in a very isolated 'hood in the city many years ago; didn't know any of my neighbors.

Originally Posted by movementarian

Look at Louisville if you like Boulder, want suburbs, want good schools, don't desire a brand new house, and don't care about a possible hellish commute. I was shocked at how good their public schools seem. You don't see that too much.
Greatschools.net Search: louisville

Honestly, I'd put the liberal vs. conservative thing as the absolute lowest priority. Usually if someone is super political, they are not very open-minded. And how come nobody ever comes here looking for an apathetic and regressive neighborhood?

Too true!

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by denverian

What's a liberal neighborhood? It's a neighborhood where the majority of residents are liberal. Stapleton, Park Hill, Congress Park, City Park, Cap. Hill, Uptown, Highlands <--- there are a few off the top of my head. Suburbia does often equal conservative, or at least conservative leaning. Older suburbs are trending less conservative, if not liberal leaning. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I can't just ignore all labels and pretend like my life will be the same, no matter what neighborhood I move into. Not everyone has your "live and let live" attitude. Evangelicals feel it's their job to make life miserable for gay people, so I choose not to live among them. If you're a heterosexual married couple, the right wing nut Christians aren't going to bother you or your kids, even if you're not one of them. If a gay couple w/kids moves in on their block, they're going to feel like their sworn enemy moved in.

Of course your kids' friends would know you were gay...they're your kids' friends! My question was, however, how would someone know you're gay if they just drive by your house or you both drop your kids off in the morning at school? It's not like you've got a sign that says, "hi, I'm a gay parent." I am sure that you don't just walk up to perfect strangers and announce you're gay. You likely wait until your kids meet or you find yourselves at the same type of event. By the way, I am minority...I'm a female. That's not something you can hide. You seem to be hostile about this and I'll say it again, I could care less if you're gay. Lord knows there are enough children in this world with horrible straight parents...kids need love. It doesn't get more simple than that. If you and your partner are the ones to provide that love, then more power to you. Thank you for helping contribute a well adjusted (and likely very open minded) citizen to our world. That's the job of every parent, straight or gay.

Again, though...I'm still waiting for the definition of a liberal neighborhood. You said it's a place where it's residents are liberal. Am I missing something? Do liberal people have a sign or some sort of secret nod or handshake? How do you know they're liberal? They have Obama signs in their yards or they stage sit-ins to protest the latest political argument? Or is it just that they are tolerant and open minded of your lifestyle? If that's the case, I think someone would be hard pressed to find that perfect community. One of the most conservative, bible thumping, "all gays are going to hell" people I know has lived in San Francisco her whole life. I promise you that if you moved next door, she would not even look in your direction.

Most people here in Colorado just don't do the "in your face" type of liberalism that seems to be prevalent. If you were my neighbor and our kids were the same age, OF COURSE I would arrange a playdate and invite you over for BBQ. Unless you give people a reason to feel uncomfortable around you, I just don't see the kind of racism/sexism/conservativism here in Denver that I believe other people who don't live here have stereotyped us as being. When you have a great influx of outsiders and of those who have moved here, most are highly educated, you are going to find a place that is more open to alternative lifestyles.

As far as the Evangelicals go, I am not sure that their religion is all that popular here in Colorado. And you are wrong about being left alone because I am part of a heterosexual family, every week we have Mormons at our house asking us to pray with them. My recycle bin is full of their flyers. And right wing nut jobs wouldn't like us because we don't go to church, we drink alcohol, we watch rated R movies. People who use religion to judge others or make themselves feel superior will find fault with everyone. Even at church, they are secretly observing whose kids are better dressed or "reverent." You aren't being picked on...they pick on everyone.