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Location: Governor's Park/Capitol Hill, Denver, CO
1,536 posts, read 6,087,030 times
Reputation: 1131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
Good question. Let me think about that, when I have an answer I'll bring this thread back up.
For me, Santa Fe's soul is one that is creative, welcoming, at peace. The architectural zoning codes require all adobe, which blends well with the natural environment. The culinary creations are a perfect mix of artistic ability to match mixed mediums of paint, metal, marble manipulations found in the galleries on Canyon drive.
South Beach, Miami speaks to me with words like, 'carefree', 'colorful' yet you see cutting edge achitecture mixed with Art Deco. You hear Latin American music but see drug deals on the beach mixed with fake breasts. To me, the vibe is beauty mixed with caution, enjoy but be aware.
The vibe I get when having Dim Sum with MobyLL on south Federal is one of being able to step out of my meat and potatos comfort zone and have great conversation with him and his wife. To travel to another neighborhood like the east Highland's Taqueria Patzquaro to argue with friends who went to North High School, I went to West, is irreplaceable. Places like the Ballpark neighborhood and LoDo can seem souless as you don't find parks or markets where you can meet and see others. However, to eat ribs at a Juneteenth celebration or to hug a stranger who was crying at MLK because of dreams realized screams volumes of soul. This is just a little of what I feel in Denver.
Location: Governor's Park/Capitol Hill, Denver, CO
1,536 posts, read 6,087,030 times
Reputation: 1131
The vibe of Washington Park on a warm March day was incredible. It was reminicent of people flocking to Huntington Beach for a day of fun. You probably can't put a name on it, but you could totally feel enjoyment in the air. Here is a bit of what I saw that I posted in another thread.
It seems as though this "What makes a good neighborhood/city?" argument has been the theme of late here on the forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverAztec
...Daily walking amongst the thousands of Victorians in Capitol Hill each one wants to tell me its stories of the past. A State Capitol and Basillica like no other city having them in their core just scream, "walk inside". ..... My nieces and nephews that are your age think I am semi crazy for asking them to stop in front of a historic mansion and let them tell me what they think about it. I have taken them into my high school, which is over 100 years old, to see the archived yearbooks. Major soul found there. Understanding our history is a beginning to understanding our soul. Because a vibe doesn't jump out and bite you does not mean it does not exist.
Great point, DenverAztec.
I think the first thing that "makes a place" is its history. It doesn't have to be ancient history, however. For a place to have a soul, or a heartbeat, it's got to have a past, and not one that started so recently that the majority of the area's residents remember "the beginning". You can feel a place in its past, and IMO it does jump out and bite you if you want it to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
In response to this though, I would say historic architecture in and of itself does not equal soul or community or sense of place necessarily. Buildings are buildings, people are people. It's the people who live inside those buildings that count.
I agree with this as well, except that old architecture does give a sense of place. For example, what could be "more Denver" than a home that's been standing in it for 100+ years? It has lived through every snowstorm, every historical event, and every attempt to raze it, within a lifetime+'s duration. That impresses me.
It is the people that make the place, but what if those people have no connection or historical attachment to it? What good is a historical Denver neighborhood if a majority of the area's residents are from Chicago or California? That to me, is not "Denver", which unfortunately is a drawback to finding a genuinely "Denver" place, because the most historical parts of town are full of transplanted yuppies (no offense to transplanted yuppies, of course).
Which brings me to my next point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverAztec
The vibe of Washington Park on a warm March day was incredible. It was reminicent of people flocking to Huntington Beach for a day of fun. You probably can't put a name on it, but you could totally feel enjoyment in the air.
I am so separated from the vibe, scene, and type of people that can be found in Washington Park. I've been there once, on a Saturday, and felt quite out of place; because I wasn't jogging, I wasn't playing 4-on-4 football, or volleyball, or soccer. I felt separated from the park, even though I was standing in it.
But, it was alive. It was a very happening place, and everybody out there seemed to be enjoying themselves immensely. I'd even go as far to say, that many of those people out there probably aren't even originally from Denver, but they were helping to give it its zest. I don't think Wash Park would contain the excitement it does if it weren't for those folks.
wow, i go to bed and a philosophical debate ensues! i'm not surprised, though...this is a tough issue to dissect.
to answer a few questions: no, by soul, i was not inferring anything spiritual. we are, but i actually would not like that being the overarching identity of the place i live. you've hit on it pretty well...uniqueness. but with a little more, you know? i mean, the mountains and sunniness make it fairly unique (especially compared to cleveland, where we are now).
i think what was said about urban areas in general (versus denver specifically) is dead on. we rarely go downtown here, but stick to our friendly pocket in an old, progressive, inner ring burb. and people may pick on cleveland, sometimes rightly so, but i have been so pleased with the sense of place and wonderful people i have met. the grittiness i could do with less...but then maybe not. case in point:
when i think about the new urbanism of stapleton and bradburn (not denver, i know, but still), i am both excited and revolted all at once. mostly because of the chain factor. it seems those types of place attract the able-to-pay-big-rents chains, and little else (please correct me if i am mistaken). and we are big supporters of local, independent business, especially for eats! so to the older hoods...i look at highlands, and cringe at the rents, the sooped up "hot" factor. park hill looks great, but am i a prisoner of the chains encroaching from stapleton? and i know there are other places i do not even know about.
lastly, to answer our need-specific questions. we would be looking to rent, at least for a couple of years (home ownership and lost equity has wearied us). 1700ish max rent for a 3b/2b (house desirable, but townhome fine too. i think we're over our apartment days). i'll be SAHM/TBD in the career department, but my husband would be working at 70 and havana, just before aurora. schools are not a huge issue, since our daughter is starting montessori this fall, and the ones i've looked at (besides the awesome public one in wash park) are all private. and we're a small family...not looking to expand at this time, so kids are great, since our house is heavy in the adult area.
places we liked when we lived there 10 years ago (pre-stapleton, beginning of lodo madness, highlands was just starting to buzz): wash park, city park and highlands. i am intrigued by the cohousing community in highlands, too, so that may betray our somewhat hippie leanings.
wow, i go to bed and a philosophical debate ensues! i'm not surprised, though...this is a tough issue to dissect.
to answer a few questions: no, by soul, i was not inferring anything spiritual. we are, but i actually would not like that being the overarching identity of the place i live. you've hit on it pretty well...uniqueness. but with a little more, you know? i mean, the mountains and sunniness make it fairly unique (especially compared to cleveland, where we are now).
i think what was said about urban areas in general (versus denver specifically) is dead on. we rarely go downtown here, but stick to our friendly pocket in an old, progressive, inner ring burb. and people may pick on cleveland, sometimes rightly so, but i have been so pleased with the sense of place and wonderful people i have met. the grittiness i could do with less...but then maybe not. case in point:
when i think about the new urbanism of stapleton and bradburn (not denver, i know, but still), i am both excited and revolted all at once. mostly because of the chain factor. it seems those types of place attract the able-to-pay-big-rents chains, and little else (please correct me if i am mistaken). and we are big supporters of local, independent business, especially for eats! so to the older hoods...i look at highlands, and cringe at the rents, the sooped up "hot" factor. park hill looks great, but am i a prisoner of the chains encroaching from stapleton? and i know there are other places i do not even know about.
lastly, to answer our need-specific questions. we would be looking to rent, at least for a couple of years (home ownership and lost equity has wearied us). 1700ish max rent for a 3b/2b (house desirable, but townhome fine too. i think we're over our apartment days). i'll be SAHM/TBD in the career department, but my husband would be working at 70 and havana, just before aurora. schools are not a huge issue, since our daughter is starting montessori this fall, and the ones i've looked at (besides the awesome public one in wash park) are all private. and we're a small family...not looking to expand at this time, so kids are great, since our house is heavy in the adult area.
places we liked when we lived there 10 years ago (pre-stapleton, beginning of lodo madness, highlands was just starting to buzz): wash park, city park and highlands. i am intrigued by the cohousing community in highlands, too, so that may betray our somewhat hippie leanings.
thanks everyone!
I don't know about the chains/Stapleton connection. Yes, there are chain restaurants. There are also 3 locally-owned restaurants in the town center. Another town center is planned on the east end. But then we're within 15 minutes of all the restaurants of central Denver, so it's not difficult to find any type of non-chain restaurant you desire. The location would be perfect for you with the work at 70/Havana, and rent sounds do-able in Stapleton. Schools are great and I believe Stapleton has "soul" (whatever that means - I'm not even sure I have a "soul"), but it's very social, lots of SAHMs, lots of groups and interraction with neighbors.
when i think about the new urbanism of stapleton and bradburn (not denver, i know, but still), i am both excited and revolted all at once. mostly because of the chain factor. it seems those types of place attract the able-to-pay-big-rents chains, and little else (please correct me if i am mistaken).
thanks everyone!
Both Bradburn and Stapleton have a mix of chains and independent businesses. In Bradburn the main chains we have are Ted's Montana Grill (which I love), Bikram Yoga, and Extreme Pizza but we also have the following independent businesses: Zen Asian Bistro, The Exchange Taven (great Irish pub), Ristras New Mexican restaurant, an art gallery, Beyond Ordinary Cafe. We are adjacent to a shopping area that has many chains including Sprouts which is a chain (organic grocery) but is awesome.
If you live anywhere in the suburbs you are going to have chains and in my opinion, they have their place--just because something is a chain does not make it bad (although in the looks department, they are usually horrible buildings LOL). I like not having to drive more than 8 minutes to a grocery store or super Target, and I'll take a chain store in walking distance versus the world's best indepedent business that I have to drive to (with the exception of course, of the Tattered Cover Bookstore LOL).
The most important thing to me in Bradburn is the sense of community here. I spent two hours yesterday on a neighbor's porch with most of the ladies on my street while the kids played and we oooh and awwwed over a neighbor's baby twins. I am never lonely here (especially since I work at home) and I can always find someone to walk up to Ted's and have a burger or hit the Cafe for a gelato. If I need help, I have a long list of neighbors I can call. That kind of security is invaluable to me personally. If that comes with some chain stores I personally could care less.
I love the Highlands, they have a great mom's group from what I hear, that sounds like it would be well suited to what you are looking for. Many of my neighbors in Bradburn have moved from there because they get the urban/walkability aspect they liked there but with better schools (which you don't need to worry about) and a new house for less money here. I know quite a bit about cohousing and think it's awesome but also know they usually have a bit of a waiting list. The one in the Highlands is right next to Sunflower market--a chain--but a great organic grocery.
Last edited by Bradburn1; 04-08-2009 at 08:01 AM..
Some of this "community" stuff is just serendipity; that is, you have neigbors who want to be communal (for lack of a better word), or not. When my kids were little I was in a babysitting co-op which was a great way to meet people. I was going to a mother's group and someone asked me if I wanted to join their co-op. 25 years later, I'm still friends with some of the people I met there. Once your kids get to school there is lots of opportunity to volunteer and get to meet other moms. Ditto the sports activities that come a little later.
I'll agree with Katiana and will tell you that in my experience, having kids is just another avenue to meet people. However, it's not your kids' job to find your new best friend. What I've discovered from moving all around the country, is that usually it's YOU who has to say "hello" when you first move in. Think of a good opening line for your neighbors...and remember that in most places, inviting them over to your house for BBQ and beers/wine/margaritas or even coffee in the morning goes a long way. As a SAHM myself, I have found it extremely difficult to meet people as my jobs had always been another social avenue for me. Now that my daughter is in school, I'm involved in the PTA, I volunteer in her school once a week and I have found a great mom's group in my area with about 60 members who range in age and occupation who I try to do at least 5 or 6 things per month with (ranging from playdates to the zoo to breakfast out). Even when moving to a so-called family friendly area (the much heralded Bradburn and Stapleton), there is a good chance you may not fit in. God forbid, your kid bites someone at a playdate or you find the other parents' style vastly different from yours. It is going to be up to you to find those you feel comfortable with, whether they're next door, down the street, or just in the same city. Wherever you move, try sites like meetup.com to find mom's groups and head to your library for storytimes. I met a great mom and daughter last week who I've made plans with to meet for breakfast. You've got to leave yourself open to the possibility of meeting new people and not expect them to bring you a bundt cake (that's for you Vegaspilgrim) just because you've moved into an area.
As far as having a sense of community, I think you have to decide what you're looking for. There are people who are heavily religious and like to involve themselves in church activities who would love to find a town/city that has a large church-going population. There are others who want their city to offer tons of free outdoor concerts and activities where the whole city shows up and knows everyone. Denver is not much different than anywhere else and not many people are actually natives to Colorado so they were in the same boat as you not too long ago. Having a social avenue is always what will make your city a place you either love or hate. If you've got a great group of friends who takes advantage of what your new city has to offer, it doesn't matter if you're in NY City or Fargo.
schools are not a huge issue, since our daughter is starting montessori this fall, and the ones i've looked at (besides the awesome public one in wash park) are all private.
Here's a link to another public montessori:
Compass Montessori School | Home Page (http://jeffco.k12.co.us/charter/compass/ - broken link)
The school is in Wheatridge and they also have one in Golden. Dennison Elementary also offers a Public Montessori program.
Another area worth looking into is Old Town Arvada. It's affordable, walkable with parks, unique restaraunts but not nearly as hip as places like Highlands.
I'm fortunate to have grown up nearby, and all of my family and relatives live within 300 miles of each other. Most of my friends are also natives. It doesn't matter what city you're talking about. When you leave the communal warmth of where your family and friends are from, its a very lonely transition. My advice would be to seek out a newcomers club. There are many of them around.
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Let me think about that, when I have an answer I'll bring this thread back up.
or you find the other parents' style vastly different from yours. It is going to be up to you to find those you feel comfortable with, whether they're next door, down the street, or just in the same city. Wherever you move, try sites like meetup.com to find mom's groups and head to your library for storytimes. I met a great mom and daughter last week who I've made plans with to meet for breakfast. You've got to leave yourself open to the possibility of meeting new people and not expect them to bring you a bundt cake (that's for you Vegaspilgrim) just because you've moved into an area.
