Relocation questions (Denver, Aurora, Littleton: spring break, 2010, apartment complexes)

[BFD]

Moving from New Orleans to Denver with my fiance and have a few questions about the area.

Looking to rent. Max price per month is 800, prefer to keep it below 700, but can stretch up to 800. I don't like suburbia, I'd prefer to be in the city proper.

Basically, I'm looking for neighborhood recommendations in this price range. We're both in our mid 20s and don't plan on starting a family for at least a few more years, so we're not concerned with schools or anything at this point. I'd prefer something relatively safe and something closer to a 20-30 demographic. Yeah, I know nothing is ever really "safe," but part of the reason we're bolting from New Orleans is that we're sick of the crime (ex: getting mugged on your doorstep, monthly car break-ins, extremely high murder rates all over the place, home invasions, can't walk at night anywhere, etc).

What's the job market looking like right now, and what did it look like before everything fell apart? [her: retail management, bachelor degree / me: BA, JD (not sitting until 2010), office/restaurant/retail/journalism)]

How's the transit system in practice? Is it actually viable or is Denver a "you NEED a car" town?

Exactly how harsh are the winters in practice? I lived through a Chicago winter a few years ago...are Denver winters similar? Milder?

Thanks.

[Katiana]

I really don't know the job market; I have a job and I'm not looking for another one. I do know it's not all that great. I have a number of laid off friends and neighbors. However, people do get jobs during a recession. I would NOT recommend moving to Denver w/o substantial savings, at least 6 months worth.

You can find an apartment at the high end of your price range. There are tons of threads on this forum about neighborhoods that you can search.

You don't "need" a car, but you will find one helpful. Google RTD to check out the public transit system.

IN GENERAL, Denver's winters are milder than Chicago's. However, it depends on the winter. This one has seemed long. There is a winter storm warning out for tomorrow.

[DenverDan]

I'm not trying to scare you away. Denver winters are relatively mild, but if you are used to spring in March, forget it. I've lived here for many years.

Snow can come in September here, usually by Halloween winter is here. The kids costumes should have room for coats.

That being said, it wouldn't be unsual to have many warm weather days in December. Its very unpredictable. Thanksgiving is likely to be a good day for a sunny walk after you stuff yourself. Christmas is likely to be sunny and warm with a 50/50 chance of snow laying on the ground.

Blizzards can role in anytime in December, January, and Februrary. Sometimes they are big enough to close things down. Some years we get them, some years we don't.

A 45 degree sunny day in Denver will feel like a 70 degree day elsewhere. The air is dry and the sun is bright.

March and April are often snowy months. When it snows it will melt off in a day or two except for shady areas. Spring snows are good for your lawn.

We just had spring break, during the week we had 60 degree weather some days, and two small snow storms on others. The week before they closed school for two days because of snow. The next week it was in the upper 60s. This is truly a variable climate from September through April. I've been told not to plant flowers outside until mothers day, but you might get away with it.

While I'm at it, summer weather in recent years seem to be on the warm side. 90s are not that unusual. The Humidity is low. Many homes were built without air conditioning because there aren't that many days when you really need it, you can just suffer through a few. It will cool down 15 or 20 degrees quickly at night.

Some of the people who come here and have irreconcilable differences with the weather are from the hot southwest, Arizona, Nevada, Southern Cali areas. They are used to getting out coats when it gets below 60.

Some people have a problem with the lack of humidity. Be prepared for nose bleeds and itchy skin until you aclimate. If you drink lots of water it will help.

Some people have a problem with the lack of green in Denver in the winter. Your lawn will go dormant brown. Your trees will loose their leaves, and you will wish spring came sooner. The low humidity has as much to do with it as the cold. I'm getting buds on my trees and specks of green in my lawn right now.

I should tell you we live under 3 feet of snow from September to June, the conventional wisdom is that if we keep saying this then the entire country won't move here. Honestly, its a great place to live.

[katenik]

Originally Posted by DenverDan

I'm not trying to scare you away. Denver winters are relatively mild, but if you are used to spring in March, forget it. I've lived here for many years.

Snow can come in September here, usually by Halloween winter is here. The kids costumes should have room for coats.

That being said, it wouldn't be unsual to have many warm weather days in December. Its very unpredictable. Thanksgiving is likely to be a good day for a sunny walk after you stuff yourself. Christmas is likely to be sunny and warm with a 50/50 chance of snow laying on the ground.

Blizzards can role in anytime in December, January, and Februrary. Sometimes they are big enough to close things down. Some years we get them, some years we don't.

A 45 degree sunny day in Denver will feel like a 70 degree day elsewhere. The air is dry and the sun is bright.

March and April are often snowy months. When it snows it will melt off in a day or two except for shady areas. Spring snows are good for your lawn.

We just had spring break, during the week we had 60 degree weather some days, and two small snow storms on others. The week before they closed school for two days because of snow. The next week it was in the upper 60s. This is truly a variable climate from September through April. I've been told not to plant flowers outside until mothers day, but you might get away with it.

While I'm at it, summer weather in recent years seem to be on the warm side. 90s are not that unusual. The Humidity is low. Many homes were built without air conditioning because there aren't that many days when you really need it, you can just suffer through a few. It will cool down 15 or 20 degrees quickly at night.

Some of the people who come here and have irreconcilable differences with the weather are from the hot southwest, Arizona, Nevada, Southern Cali areas. They are used to getting out coats when it gets below 60.

Some people have a problem with the lack of humidity. Be prepared for nose bleeds and itchy skin until you aclimate. If you drink lots of water it will help.

Some people have a problem with the lack of green in Denver in the winter. Your lawn will go dormant brown. Your trees will loose their leaves, and you will wish spring came sooner. The low humidity has as much to do with it as the cold. I'm getting buds on my trees and specks of green in my lawn right now.

I should tell you we live under 3 feet of snow from September to June, the conventional wisdom is that if we keep saying this then the entire country won't move here. Honestly, its a great place to live.

Thanks for the run-down on the weather.

[BFD]

Thank you both for the replies.

Originally Posted by Katiana

I really don't know the job market; I have a job and I'm not looking for another one. I do know it's not all that great. I have a number of laid off friends and neighbors. However, people do get jobs during a recession. I would NOT recommend moving to Denver w/o substantial savings, at least 6 months worth.

You can find an apartment at the high end of your price range. There are tons of threads on this forum about neighborhoods that you can search.

You don't "need" a car, but you will find one helpful. Google RTD to check out the public transit system.

IN GENERAL, Denver's winters are milder than Chicago's. However, it depends on the winter. This one has seemed long. There is a winter storm warning out for tomorrow.

I have enough to cover 6 months for the both of us, she has about two more months saved up in her account. This is before moving expenses. I think that's really the one area where we're prepped.

I did run a few searches on these boards and elsewhere about the various neighborhoods, but I really keep seeing people contradicting each other (except that LoDo is expensive, everyone seems to agree on that point). I've had a few people suggest the Cap Hill area or around Cheesman park. Any thoughts to that?

I checked out the RTD site, thanks for the suggestion. I think my question isn't so much if we can survive without a car (we have two right now, might sell one off before the move), but if it would be practical. I lived in Chicago without a car and was fine due to the extensive bus/train system, but I couldn't imagine living in New Orleans without one. I think what I'm trying to ask is if we had one car and one of us had to bus to work, would the bus experience be horrific (overcrowded, late/not running, erratic schedules, 5 connections to go 1 mile, etc).

Originally Posted by DenverDan

I'm not trying to scare you away. Denver winters are relatively mild, but if you are used to spring in March, forget it. I've lived here for many years.

Snow can come in September here, usually by Halloween winter is here. The kids costumes should have room for coats.

That being said, it wouldn't be unsual to have many warm weather days in December. Its very unpredictable. Thanksgiving is likely to be a good day for a sunny walk after you stuff yourself. Christmas is likely to be sunny and warm with a 50/50 chance of snow laying on the ground.

Blizzards can role in anytime in December, January, and Februrary. Sometimes they are big enough to close things down. Some years we get them, some years we don't.

A 45 degree sunny day in Denver will feel like a 70 degree day elsewhere. The air is dry and the sun is bright.

March and April are often snowy months. When it snows it will melt off in a day or two except for shady areas. Spring snows are good for your lawn.

We just had spring break, during the week we had 60 degree weather some days, and two small snow storms on others. The week before they closed school for two days because of snow. The next week it was in the upper 60s. This is truly a variable climate from September through April. I've been told not to plant flowers outside until mothers day, but you might get away with it.

While I'm at it, summer weather in recent years seem to be on the warm side. 90s are not that unusual. The Humidity is low. Many homes were built without air conditioning because there aren't that many days when you really need it, you can just suffer through a few. It will cool down 15 or 20 degrees quickly at night.

Some of the people who come here and have irreconcilable differences with the weather are from the hot southwest, Arizona, Nevada, Southern Cali areas. They are used to getting out coats when it gets below 60.

Some people have a problem with the lack of humidity. Be prepared for nose bleeds and itchy skin until you aclimate. If you drink lots of water it will help.

Some people have a problem with the lack of green in Denver in the winter. Your lawn will go dormant brown. Your trees will loose their leaves, and you will wish spring came sooner. The low humidity has as much to do with it as the cold. I'm getting buds on my trees and specks of green in my lawn right now.

I should tell you we live under 3 feet of snow from September to June, the conventional wisdom is that if we keep saying this then the entire country won't move here. Honestly, its a great place to live.

This was a really helpful post, thank you! Reading raw weather averages doesn't really help as much as this did.

For the most part I'm used to 90+ degrees with 80%+ humidity 10 months out the year, but I adapt well (I've travelled all over the place). I'm looking for a drier climate, so that isn't really a problem. My skin actually does better in dry areas than humid areas. The fiance isn't really used to winters, but she loves Colorado so I think she'll cope. I was trying to get an idea of what to expect. This really helped.

[edesign]

BFD...I just moved here from Lafayette, LA at the beginning of March after living down there for ten years and I have to admit that the weather here is, imho, much nicer than southern LA's lol. I hated knowing that most of the year I could not even open the door without being drenched in sweat, kept me from doing much outdoors. Since moving here my gf and I spend a lot of time outside walking on the city trails or driving 10-15 minutes to one of the Open Space parks that are all over and hiking in the foothills. The best part is they are free

The weather here seems quite volatile, I have yet to see an accurate forecast even a day in advance...it's worse than trying to predict south LA weather. When we got here it was 70-75...then it dropped in to the 50's...warmed back up...then a blizzard that dropped about 10" of snow...and so on and so forth :P Even when it is cold the humidity is generally much lower than what we are accustomed to so it's not nearly as frigid.

Out of curiosity, have you ever driven on snow/ice? If not you would do best to do some research on it and practice on an empty street if you can I grew up in Alaska and snow/ice was a fact of life much of the time but after being away from it for so long I was a bit rusty when it came time to remember haha. I did show my gf why it is bad to mash your brakes when the roads are icy/snowy...20MPH and we spun halfway around in the road (it was fun). Best to very lightly pump them and slow down much farther in advance than you normally do. I believe studded tires are illegal in this area but I did see a vehicle at Albertsons a week or so ago that had them...may not have been a local resident or I am wrong about the legality. Can't see where you'd really get much use out of them here in town unless you made a LOT of trips in to the mountains in the winter.

As for finding a place to live under $800, that is exactly what our budget was when we moved. We managed to find a nice little condo in Littleton for $700/month and all we pay is gas/electricity which is through Xcel Energy. They require a $140 deposit for new customers but what they don't tell you unless you ask is that if you can get a letter of credit from your previous utility company and send it in they will waive the deposit, provided you were in good standing of course. Keep a close eye on craigslist when you get here as we found that many of the places we liked rented out very fast. We also found that privately owned places were better to work with since we have two cats and a dog, most apartment complexes only allow at most two pets.

As far as neighborhoods go it's hard to go wrong here. As someone had said in another thread anything along the RTD routes should be fine. Generally people say avoid Montbello and north Aurora (north of Mississippi) and occasionally Green Valley Ranch (not to be confused with Greenwood Village) but I can not personally vouch for that as I have not been in those specific areas yet.

I have yet to see any neighborhoods that come even remotely close to what I would consider a bad part of town based on looks/people and most people from other cities agree...there are no "ghettos" here. I wasn't too impressed with the area right around Invesco Stadium however, lots of bars on house windows and some scraggly/rough looking people wandering around, but didn't feel unsafe at the time. Had a discussion with DenverAztec last night about this and he said that the bad neighborhoods here don't usually look bad, so I guess you can't judge a book by its cover. This is a good sized city and it has its crime but coming from New Orleans you should find it quite tame. Aztec said that most of the crime here is property crime (burglaries of homes and vehicles) and I have confirmed that via police statistics and such.

In Lafayette I would not leave my house without having my pistol in my car (CO laws are basically the same as LA's regarding self defense and carrying in your vehicle, FYI) but here I have yet to take it with me anywhere. Even though it's a city 10-20X larger than where I'm from I feel quite safe here. I've been in other large cities like Houston, Dallas, Seattle, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and this is by far the city I get the safest feeling from.

We rode the RTD from near the C470/I-25 area to Union Station (end of the line, downtown) one day just to see how it was and we loved it. Then again it was not during commuter rush but I understand it is quite the popular transportation choice and I can see why. The little bit I have read about it on here is that it is pretty safe, as far as practicality goes it would depend on where you or your fiance gets a job and the weather that day. It's one thing to walk four or five blocks from the station to a job when it's sunny and 50 degrees, quite another when it is raining/snowing and 30 or colder lol. I can't comment on how on-time the RTD runs (the train, not the busses) but the schedule shows quite a few different trains running at peak times.

The RTD train stops at designated stations along the track, not very confusing and doesn't slow it down much either. The last major snowfall we got that I mentioned is the only time I have heard that there was a potential for it to shutdown (friend of ours said she tried to call for 30 minutes to see and kept getting a busy signal that day as we had another friend downtown at a convention who needed to use it to get back here) so I don't think that is a big issue.

Buy lots of lotion...you will need it here, I had forgotten what dry air was really like! Your skin may do better in dry areas but it's going to have humidity shock when you move

Job market? Look at the online job posting sites to get an idea of availability...the thing you won't see is your competition. This is a very popular city and a lot of people move here when the times are good and now that times are bad even more are picking up and coming here (look at us lol) because they think it will be better than "back home". This means there is going to be a lot of competition but it really depends on the industry you work in, there are a TON of tech/IT jobs here but I also hear that there can be over 100 people applying for the same job :O Not sure how the management sector is, I've seen a few job postings pop up in my searches for project management so there is SOMETHING here...just not sure the extent/competition. CO's unemployment rate is very similar to LA's except that Denver is one of the top educated cities in the US (Seattle as well) so your competition, overall, may be a bit more stronger than elsewhere. Also, the unemployment rates vary wildly from sector to sector so you may want to check on that as well.

[LaniEcho]

I'm moving there for the summer from Monroe, LA (I got a summer internship there). This helps a lot! Thanks!

[LaniEcho]

"As for finding a place to live under $800, that is exactly what our budget was when we moved. We managed to find a nice little condo in Littleton for $700/month and all we pay is gas/electricity which is through Xcel Energy. They require a $140 deposit for new customers but what they don't tell you unless you ask is that if you can get a letter of credit from your previous utility company and send it in they will waive the deposit, provided you were in good standing of course. Keep a close eye on craigslist when you get here as we found that many of the places we liked rented out very fast. We also found that privately owned places were better to work with since we have two cats and a dog, most apartment complexes only allow at most two pets."

[edesign]

The complex is called "The Pinnacle At Highline", I think they were recently converted to privately-owned units. It's near McLellan Reservoir...15 minutes to Red Rocks (and three other parks as immediate neighbors), 10 minutes to Deer Creek Canyon, and ~30 minutes from downtown depending on traffic. If you don't like dogs it is not going to be the place for you as a lot of tenants/owners have them. Most people are good about picking up after their pet too.

Where is your internship located?

[David Aguilar]

Originally Posted by edesign

Generally people say avoid Montbello and north Aurora (north of Mississippi) ............but I can not personally vouch for that as I have not been in those specific areas yet.

That's right!

Avoid my neighborhood!

You should be very afraid of people like me, because I will harm you. Woooooooooooooo!




Please, don't comment on that which you do not know.