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Old 11-24-2009, 08:43 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,003 times
Reputation: 12
I just want to mention that Aurora, Colorado has a .5% PIF at the Gardens at Havana (or the old Buckingham Shopping Center). They charge this 'tax' on groceries, too.
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Old 11-24-2009, 10:06 PM
 
Location: western Centennial, CO
622 posts, read 1,133,863 times
Reputation: 263
Here's an interesting one. There are 3 fairly new Super Target stores on the south side of town (leaving off the one by SW Plaza which is a bit older and has no PIF). The ones at Riverpoint and Lone Tree Commons have PIF attached to purchases. The one that just opened a little over a month ago in Highlands Ranch Town Center does not have one. I know it done by the developer and not the stores, but which one am I going to shop at? The one in Highlands Ranch of course, because it has the lowest sales tax to begin with and the PIF just drives up the cost for the others.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Colorado
137 posts, read 249,978 times
Reputation: 64
How funny. I had noticed a difference in total price between the two-- Lone Tree and Highlands Ranch and thought it was HR tax vs. LT tax. The LT one is closer to me and my first choice during snow storms (love that underground parking) but other than that, I will make the trek to the HR one, even though it is much further for me.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:43 AM
Status: "Ask me about Denver" (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: South Metro Denver and looking at houses
8,516 posts, read 18,474,999 times
Reputation: 4243
Lone Tree is a city, Highlands Ranch is a subdivision in unincorporated Douglas County.

The Lone Tree Target is the only one with underground parking.

The River Point Shopping complex was built on a brownfield redevelopment site using bonds sold by the bankrupt Lehman Bros ( think.)
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:00 AM
 
1,176 posts, read 2,879,809 times
Reputation: 445
So you want to live in the middle of nowhere, a place where new roads, sewers and sidewalks must be built, you want to pay next to nothing for a McMansion in said area and then you ***** when reality walks in the door in the form of an improvement fee to provide aforementioned services?
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:05 AM
 
Location: western Centennial, CO
622 posts, read 1,133,863 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bindenver View Post
Lone Tree is a city, Highlands Ranch is a subdivision in unincorporated Douglas County.

The Lone Tree Target is the only one with underground parking.

The River Point Shopping complex was built on a brownfield redevelopment site using bonds sold by the bankrupt Lehman Bros ( think.)
I would argue Highlands Ranch is many subdivisions

So at the Lone Tree one you pay the same Sales Tax as the Highlands Ranch one (state, county, RTD, SCFD, Stadium) + Lone Tree city tax since they stack. In addition you pay the PIF which is 'not a sales tax' as they state and you pay the PIF even on the sales tax and even on groceries - Lone Tree and Sheridan have no sales tax on groceries but you do pay the PIF on it.

PIF is just a sore point for me because as a consumer I see no benefit from it, just added cost. I like the Highlands Ranch Town Center. The Super Target in HR is the nicest of the 3 IMO and they built it without a PIF to pay for the so-called improvements. Just like no PIF at Streets of Southglenn and there was a lot of infrastructure improvement there. They have a multi-level parking garage! It just steers me to where to shop. I just don't believe there is added benefit to the consumer from PIF only to the developer.

BTW- Riverpoint's infrastructure is a joke. You can't walk from store to store because the sidewalks end in the middle of nowhere, there are concrete ramps on the corners that attach to dirt.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:07 AM
 
Location: western Centennial, CO
622 posts, read 1,133,863 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveindenver View Post
So you want to live in the middle of nowhere, a place where new roads, sewers and sidewalks must be built, you want to pay next to nothing for a McMansion in said area and then you ***** when reality walks in the door in the form of an improvement fee to provide aforementioned services?
The point is that malls were built in the middle of nowhere before and the developer paid for it with rent and tenants. Now, they pass the buck on! This has nothing to do at all with McMansions or developer fees on new houses. Riverpoint is a redevelopment site in the middle of a well-developed urban area. It's not as though the PIF is paying for repaving of Santa Fe (or Lincoln Ave for that matter).
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:06 PM
 
1,176 posts, read 2,879,809 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
It's not as though the PIF is paying for repaving of Santa Fe (or Lincoln Ave for that matter).
That is true -- and not in the spirit of what a PIF is generally used for. Still, those areas did gain additional shopping options that improve the area as a whole and provide convenience for those nearby.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: western Centennial, CO
622 posts, read 1,133,863 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveindenver View Post
That is true -- and not in the spirit of what a PIF is generally used for. Still, those areas did gain additional shopping options that improve the area as a whole and provide convenience for those nearby.
It's just frustrating that some developers can make shopping centers without a PIF and others implement one. And in general there's no trend between where they are and if they have a PIF.
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Na'alehu Hawaii/Buena Vista Colorado
2,738 posts, read 4,430,945 times
Reputation: 1969
A Public Improvement Fee is a private fee that is collected by businesses on sales transactions. The money is used to pay for the public improvements related for a development of their site, such as curbs and sidewalks, storm management systems, sanitary sewer systems, public street lighting, and road and bridge development.

The PIF is specifically a fee and NOT a tax; therefore it becomes a part of the overall cost of the sale/service and is subject to sales tax.

The PIF is not collected by the City, but by a third party administrator hired by the owner of the development site.
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