Moving to Denver ....?'s on Racism (centers, eat, design)

[wanttomoveeast]

Scott: About a few posts ago in response to Turco or Subsound I think it was, I talked a lot industrialism. The Black Panthers were adamant about it. The race class I took, I forgot the prof., but it was at CU of Denver about 2 yrs. ago. That class was much more mixed - we had a couple of Jews, blacks, hispanics, asians and whites. It got to where I thought a fight might break out and the prof. had to remind people to be respectful. One person in particular was outright racist and said so and after that it got really ugly. I studied Dubois along with a zillion other sociologists, it was my major.

My DH is from Orange County, Calif. and he remembers a time when skinheads were rampant. They were here too, but it was about 15 yrs. ago they seemed to disappear.

And lastly, thanks for saying this: "It's conceivable for black people to have some resentment, even now..." I truly believe that some of that resentment and anger would be let go if the whites were respectful of it and didn't act like 1) we have chips on our shoulders; 2) we are overly sensitive and 3) we should just get over it. If you think about it, race totally aside but as people, often two sides would get along better if both sides learned some empathy and recognized each others hurts.

[texgrl]

Originally Posted by jcx

We are thinking about moving to denver from phx but was wondering if there is racism there? We have young children and dont want to move directly into an area that may be an issue

Are you white or black? despite what everyone thinks racism exists against both. Colorado (having lived there for 15 years) is very liberal and open to gays and non racist communities. Neither you or your children should really have any issues, regardless of your color. Good luck

[wanttomoveeast]

texgrl, that post was from April 2007. I think the OP is long gone.

[TurcoLoco]

WTME, I really do not think you read my post that carefully because this is what I wrote:

I can't help but think that most if not all minorities are overly aware of their status and feel that any odd or unacceptable reaction or treatment they get from others are because of their minority status where in fact may not be.

Of course, sometimes, you being the minority is the case with undeniable facts but sometimes, it may seem that way because the minority person in question could be overly aware of or anticipating against other party(ies) being racist or prejudice.

You came up with all of the following on your own:

What you say about can't helping but think that blacks are overly sensitive... well... what I have to say to that is that statement is exactly what I was describing by a rift, a dividing between blacks and whites here. I posted something about it earlier in a long post. I don't think you meant it to sound this way, this is how I took it, but saying that blacks are sensitive and jumping to conclusions on racism is sort of lacking in empathy towards others who are different than you. But with that said, there are def. people who (like I said earlier) jump to conclusions and are overly sensitive. I just think that to come to that conclusion first almost invalidates what we are saying. Like to the gay black man, "oh you were just over seeing it, maybe he wasn't gay, maybe he was just grouchy", sort of invalidates what the gay black man is telling you. Just my 2 cents.

And somehow you came up with this:
a) Did I even use the word black or gay?
Answer: No

b)Did I say blacks are sensitive?
Answer: No

But you managed to come up with all of the above judgemental sounding comments on your own, which had nothing to do with what I was trying to point out.
Oddly though, your reaction, not only was conflicted with your own comment (that blacks are overly sensitive) but also in a strange way proved my initial comment correct.

Of course I have some knowledge of the history of this country and what happened with the blacks and whites and of course it was shocking and horrible and I totally understand what you are saying and the reasons why black people would have a reason to be sensitive or aware but all I was trying to say was not every incident that people label as a case of a racist or prejudice act may not be, people could inaccurately judge/evaluate and analyze mainly due to their awareness of being a minority, due to own or others experiences.
People could be opinionated and since no one is perfect and since we are all emotional creatures, you do not feel that it is a possibility for people to make false assumptions? Sense others behavior or misunderstand others words incorrectly? Heck you have with my post #130 (reference above paragrah).

You did mention in your last post that you were not directing your comment at me but after reading your comments, no sober person could easily agree with you. You successfully misinterpreted my words, am I wrong? Of course I am, no woman (black or white) would admit she is wrong, I can't believe I even asked that question!

Of course what you are telling me is just your opinions and nothing more but the end of the above paragraph (bold section) seemed to be screaming "Turco you are effing wrong!! Do not disagree with us black/gay people or you will torture you till you die from our pointless cyber debate".

Fear not, I am done but I would like you and Denverian to know though I dislike getting into debates over politics/religion/racism.

Anyhow, I am done, I think Denverian understood my point or just simply ignoring instead of making statements about things I didn't say or mean.
I can see how heated this topic can become for some people and for me to trying to bring a different perspective, in spite of all my good intend, was border-line suicidal.

I sure hope you didn't think I am insensitive or I was trying to upset you guys and may be you were not, may be you are enjoying this debate regardless of the fact that I thought you were getting upset?

I am a foreigner but I am not stupid, I used to play cowboys and Indians when I was a hyper, wild kid.
I couldn't wait to come to America so I could actually see the cowboys and Indians. Little that I know, Indians indeed became a part of the American history, none to be found anywhere! White man killed almost all of them because this bigass land was not big enough! Then realized how big it was and how much work there was to be done, then comes the boats from Africa. 300+ years later, whitey comes to his senses , so no more slavery. Decades later, whitey gets tired of doing the minimum wage jobs and can't seem to find enough laborers, the borders loosen up and then comes the hard workers from South of the border, perhaps a few too many come...
I have been here long enough to know racism and prejudice bigots exist. Hell, they exist all around the world, throughout the centuries even and it is not going anywhere till some day we are technologically advanced enough to find another viable planet and get all the smart, healthy and productive humans there and leave the violent, stupid, destructive ones behind!

Oh wait...dang it, that would be discrimination and racism too!

Oh well, I guess nothing will ever change...

1 Luv

[PeixeGato]

Originally Posted by wanttomoveeast

I took a race class in college and it got really heated. Imagine taking this thread and putting people physically together to duke it out. It's also one of those things where I'm not going to change others' minds and likewise.

I think what the web does allow is time for people to reflect and think before they respond. When you are face to face with someone, you are much more likely to speak out of emotion. So maybe a classroom discussion wouldn't be that constructive, lol.

[wankel7]

Originally Posted by jcx

We are thinking about moving to denver from phx but was wondering if there is racism there? We have young children and dont want to move directly into an area that may be an issue

I am sure it happens here. I am sure it happens everywhere.

I am sure I don't care what color you are.

Come here and have a blast!

[denverian]

Originally Posted by wanttomoveeast

Scott: About a few posts ago in response to Turco or Subsound I think it was, I talked a lot industrialism. The Black Panthers were adamant about it. The race class I took, I forgot the prof., but it was at CU of Denver about 2 yrs. ago. That class was much more mixed - we had a couple of Jews, blacks, hispanics, asians and whites. It got to where I thought a fight might break out and the prof. had to remind people to be respectful. One person in particular was outright racist and said so and after that it got really ugly. I studied Dubois along with a zillion other sociologists, it was my major.

My DH is from Orange County, Calif. and he remembers a time when skinheads were rampant. They were here too, but it was about 15 yrs. ago they seemed to disappear.

And lastly, thanks for saying this: "It's conceivable for black people to have some resentment, even now..." I truly believe that some of that resentment and anger would be let go if the whites were respectful of it and didn't act like 1) we have chips on our shoulders; 2) we are overly sensitive and 3) we should just get over it. If you think about it, race totally aside but as people, often two sides would get along better if both sides learned some empathy and recognized each others hurts.

We lived in Orange County for 10 years, and it's getting better, at least regarding race relations. My family was there since the early 1900s, and from what I've heard, it was very white and fairly racist up until the early '90s. There still aren't many black people there though - lots of Asians, Hispanics, and a growing Middle Eastern population.

I can totally understand the resentment. The effects of racism and slavery can still be seen/felt in the black communities of this country- I'm guessing due to poverty being passed down from generation to generation, poor education opportunities for so many, along with blatant racism. I was just watching an episode of "Good Times" this morning and it's like watching a piece of history from 35 years ago, seeing how life was for so many black people then. That really wasn't that long ago, when you think about it.

[wanttomoveeast]

Turco: I do not feel I misinterpreted your statements, I simply have my own opinions and I do not agree with some of your statements. Of course I perceived your statements in a certain way just as you have done the same with me. It's not really worth arguing about. And this is going to sound silly and childish, but I see no other way of saying it. You asked, did I say black or gay? My response is I don't think so, but I also don't think I accused you of saying it. If you dislike getting into debates such as this one, why have you continued to post these long wordy posts? Why not just let it lie? I've repeatedly apologized to you for not wording myself the way I wanted to, for perhaps misunderstanding your posts, etc. But yet you still respond to me -- ? And yeah, I came up w/comments all on my own, who else's comments are they? Whether they are judgmental or not is your own perogative, I certainly don't think it's the truth. Maybe your truth.

I do not feel that because you disagree you must be tortured. I do feel that unless you are in someone else's shoes, you really cannot argue in their place. You really have no idea what it's like being black or gay. Some of what you had to say completely outraged me, but that could be because I am black and you are not, and your assessments seem very naive and ignorant. Sometimes yes, insensitive. Really that's why I responded because I feel that sometimes things need to be said when no one else will say them. I thought you were first partaking in this thread because you had a natural curiosity and honestly wanted to understand another group's perspective, not argue about it.

I can't speak for what Denverian thinks, although I do think he's more diplomatic than I am.

[wanttomoveeast]

I don't know about that. For one thing, when you are face to face with someone you weigh your comments much more, vs. the web when you can type whatever with little personal accountability.

The problem w/the web is (see me and Turco) no one can see each other's body language, hear their tone, etc. So a lot of disagreement may not be that at all in person.

The classroom thing was constructive in that we had someone produce factual information that some may not have known, thereby bringing about awareness and further thought.

Originally Posted by PeixeGato

I think what the web does allow is time for people to reflect and think before they respond. When you are face to face with someone, you are much more likely to speak out of emotion. So maybe a classroom discussion wouldn't be that constructive, lol.

[wanttomoveeast]

Turco: Good Times. ahh. Watch the Jeffersons for more insight. So strange to see. Sometimes it feels like forever ago, but like you said, it really wasn't that long ago. I do feel that a better understanding of each other might bring about empathy towards both sides and therefore close the gap more.