Moving to Denver ....?'s on Racism (Aurora, Parker: closing, safe, bars)

[wanttomoveeast]

Very good question indeed. I have no answer. But do agree with this.

Originally Posted by ArthurOPodd

My question is: What works?

The "diversity" lectures, pamphlets, quizzes, training ad nauseum just don't change peoples minds.

[AilaTyler]

Moved from Phoenix to Denver in 2006. Denver is fine. Just another city.

[PeixeGato]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

It is more like an ignorant, cowtown type of racism. Denver is a city that is heavily white. So it seems like a lot of the black and latino people really keep to themselves and it is not very integrated.

I am white, and when I talk to other white people in Denver they say some very ignorant things. It is not hateful, it is just naive and uneducated. The opinions of people who really need to travel a lot more. The opinions of people who have never had to interact in a diverse environment.

It seems as though this is becoming pretty typical, regardless of where you are talking about. Our cities, towns, and suburbs have become MORE segregated since the early 80s.

There are also a LOT of Americans who don't travel, don't visit abroad, and never experience anything outside of their "protective shell". I find this to be true both in rural America and in many of the large cities (there are many ethnic neighborhoods in NYC and NJ where people never leave their local neighborhoods except maybe to get on the train to go to work).

[PeixeGato]

Originally Posted by Masshiker

One day I was in a fast food joint. There was a white guy in front of me waiting for the white male employee to take his order.

The white employee kind of had a bit of an attitude like he would rather be some place else. He walked over to the white customer in front of me with this disinterested look on his face, like the customer was annoying him simply by wanting to place his order.

The white customer looked at the guy and said " Am I bothering you"?
Kind of like asking the kid if he had a problem taking his order. So the employee says no, and goes ahead and takes the guy's order without further incident.

Anyway, my point is this. That happened between two WHITE people. Now, if that customer had been BLACK, and that WHITE employee had acted like that, what are the odds that the black person would say the guy was acting crappy because he was black? That is what I asked myself as I stood in line and watched that unfold. Because I might have thought that myself. ( And I am black by the way, actually black/white).

My point is, some blacks ARE a bit touchy about stuff like that, and might over react. That doesnt change the fact that there are whites that still make ignorant comments, and actually MEAN it in a racist way. But, in all fairness, blacks CAN over react at times.

This is a very interesting experience. Many times, as a black man, my first thought is whether someone is reacting to me in a certain way because of my race or the fact that I'm with my wife (who is white). I guess its the way we are wired, based on the history of this country. It takes a conscious effort on my part to look beyond the seemingly obviously reasons and think that maybe someone is just a miserable and unhappy person.

I once went to a seminar about diversity and racial sensitivity and a skit was put on. The setting was a holiday office party with a bar set up on one end of the stage. In the beginning, a Hispanic man walked in and complained about a spill on his jacket (he was wearing a white shirt and tie). To remedy it, he walked over to the bar, went behind the bar, and applied seltzer water to the stain on his jacket (to do so, he was kind of hunched over behind the bar). Then, a white person entered the scene, saw the bar, and walked over to order a drink. The hispanic guy looked up and the white person simply said "I'll have a such and such please". There was a pause and the Hispanic guy said that he was an employee attending the party and not the bartender. The white person said "oh, I'm sorry" and kind of gave that uncomfortable laugh.

At the end of the skit, the group led a discussion and asked people's feelings about what went down at the bar. Black and Hispanic people in the audience jumped up and down saying things like "I can't believe that the white person would assume that the Hispanic is the bartender", "How dare that white person think that just because he's Hispanic, that he's the bartender. He should've asked the Hispanic guy if he was the bartender before making the assumption", "why didn't the white person think to ask if the Hispanic was a bartender or someone attending the party", etc. After thinking about it and listening to the responses, I stood up and pointed out that from the white person's perspective in the skit, all they saw was a man in a white dress shirt and dark tie standing behind the bar, bent over it working on something. I then asked, what person who saw the exact same thing (i.e. a man in a white dress shirt and dark tie standing behind the bar working on something), without the benefit of seeing what transpired before the Hispanic man went behind the bar, would make the assumption that the person behind the bar was the bartender. The room got quiet for a moment, then there were rumblings of "yeah, that's true", etc.

I think the skit made an excellent point of showing how you can't rush to make judgement about how someone approaches a situation or reacts to you. To this day, that skit has changed how I perceive the way people approach me, and I saw that skit 10 years ago.

[wanttomoveeast]

Originally Posted by PeixeGato

This is a very interesting experience. Many times, as a black man, my first thought is whether someone is reacting to me in a certain way because of my race or the fact that I'm with my wife (who is white). I guess its the way we are wired, based on the history of this country. It takes a conscious effort on my part to look beyond the seemingly obviously reasons and think that maybe someone is just a miserable and unhappy person.

I too go through this. I'm a black woman and my husband is white. I try very hard to think that when I'm treated badly or have that sort of experience that there are many reasons why people act a certain way. The other day I was standing in line at a food court spot when this lady kept staring at me. It made me really uncomfortable. A million things went through my mind including, "is there something on my face??". She finally said, your hair is so beautiful. And then I realized why she was staring. But when you are black or a minority, you tend to wonder if it's your race. I do think it's the history of this country that remains an influence in the way we interact.

And your skit totally proves a point, that some are touchy and for good reason but that perhaps a step back in analyzing these issues would help us gain some perspective instead of jumping to conclusions.

[lookd-over]

I think that there is more discrimination in the job market. Look at the next fire truck or police car, especially in Aurora, and see if you notice latino or african americans in these vehicles. Look at jobs paying $40,000/year + then notices who has the job of cleaning/service and overall low paying jobs. These whites have not noticed because the LIVE GOOD! A white person can land a job paying $35k+ faster than an armed forces veteran with a college degree!

[HereinDenver]

We find Denver very tolerant. Surrounding cities, i.e. Colorado Springs, not so much so.

[stromaple]

After living in NYC for 10 years my husband and I are moving to Denver this summer. One of the obstacles that stood in the way of making this final decision was the diversity of Denver, or lack of in comparison to NYC. Of course I understand it is difficult to compare NYC to other cities because of the wealth of culture within this city, but my concerns mainly stemmed from this forum. While I know racism lives everywhere, the comments about various cultural groups on this site left me so upset I couldn't find the appropriate words to post my feelings. When it comes down to it, it's about educating others who have these pre-conceived judgments / predjudice based on what they've been taught throughout history, and the fear of the unknown. We all have biases, and the only way to overcome them is to recognize and acknowledge them.

[HereinDenver]

Originally Posted by stromaple

After living in NYC for 10 years my husband and I are moving to Denver this summer. One of the obstacles that stood in the way of making this final decision was the diversity of Denver, or lack of in comparison to NYC. Of course I understand it is difficult to compare NYC to other cities because of the wealth of culture within this city, but my concerns mainly stemmed from this forum. While I know racism lives everywhere, the comments about various cultural groups on this site left me so upset I couldn't find the appropriate words to post my feelings. When it comes down to it, it's about educating others who have these pre-conceived judgments / predjudice based on what they've been taught throughout history, and the fear of the unknown. We all have biases, and the only way to overcome them is to recognize and acknowledge them.

It's not real bad. There's racism in every city. Before moving here, I lived in MD/DC area, before that SF, LA, and NYC. There is racism everywhere. Probably the worst is actually NYC! Point is, don't let that ruin your decision. Denver is a great area, generally the friendliest people, nicest weather, great schools, air quality, stable economy, and reasonable cost of living.

[stromaple]

I know there is racism everywhere. What I meant is that we need to make sure we educate people about derogatory remarks they may make it help them enter the 21st century.

We have made our decision and will be there in July!