Moving to Denver ....?'s on Racism (areas, cities, careers)

[downtownnola]

WTME: I wouldn't worry too much about CareuhAK... he's obviously a troll, and furthermore, he's in Alaska. I agree with cowboyxjon: I wish we could hand out negative rep points.

[wanttomoveeast]

Downtownnola: Yeah, I figured. I just couldn't let it lie. Thanks though!

(I'm not upset about it).

[CareuhAK]

Originally Posted by wanttomoveeast

Because these whites are "unaware or optimistic" is exactly why I feel anger when they pronounce racism is over. If you don't know what you are talking about, then better to keep one's mouth closed.

To answer your questions, first let me ask what "labeling" you are referring to since you have not specified. I think before I type and am often careful about not making generalizations but attempt to make my point using specific instances.



Of course not. That's a ridiculous question. Your whiteness does however, exempt you from understanding truly what the life of a black person is like. Exactly the same as me not understanding what a white (or fill in the blank) person's life is like.



Again, are you for real?? Why do you make the assumption that because you are in a majority group you are racist? Why on earth would you assume anyone (incl. me thinks that way?).

I still really don't know what "assumptions" you are acusing me of. Most of my statements come from personal experience.



It makes me a thinking, thoughtful, educated person.

Sorry, but your post reminds me of the ignorance that is filled in this country and often annoys me. The inability to at the very least have empathy for other persons in this world is apparent in posts like this. Not everyone was born in the cushy, posh, privileged majority like you, and you might fare better at least to try to understand.

Mind you, I don't walk around thinking about these issues, and I've never used my minority status as a means of claiming some type of disability. It's simply who I am.

The point of this thread was a person asking about racism in Denver. None of your post responds to that but rather blathers on about pointless accusations.

Pointless accustations are not what I was aiming for, and certainly not what I feel I've said. Although I find it interesting that in one inclusive post you have said "I think before I type and am often careful about not making generalizations" and then later "Not everyone was born in the cushy, posh, privileged majority like you, and you might fare better at least to try to understand."

I'm sorry. It seems that because of your assumptions about my 'priveldged' life and your obvious contempt for those who are so 'priveledged' you may need to 'at least try to understand' that I grew up in a less than priveleged circle and can empathize with struggles with race and social, economic and educational levels. No, I can't imagine being of any other race than my own, but I think it fair to defend myself and state my opinion when someone states they are 'angry at whites', just as much as someone might grow defensive if someone were 'angry at blacks'. I'm sorry that I don't appear empathetic, though all I can say is that a good portion of my life has and continues to involve learning from and participating in differing cultural groups in my area (including a wide range of Native Alaskan groups) and that I have deep ties and concerns with people of diverse backgrounds. I have cousins, one of whom is my closest friend, who have grown up multiracial, their mother is white and their father is black.

I simply feel that many of your comments are only serving the purpose of displaying your anger and don't necesarily reflect any specific instance in which you experienced the 'ignorance of whites'.

As to my experience with Denver and racism, I'll note that it can be somewhat segregated, and that bothers me. There is some isolation as far as neighborhoods and the markedly large majority of white people seems in part (emphasis on 'in part') to socialize within itself, which happens to be what I see in the south in certain areas. Missouri has a high percentage of blacks and in areas a majority, and I see the same trend of isolation. Each racial group takes its part in isolating itself from the other. In comparison to any other major city I know of, racism (which is sadly everywhere, as are all types of hate) is not as pronounced. There is certianly less violence, if not less discrimination. I'll note that each person's experience with any place can be completely different from another's experience.

[CareuhAK]

Originally Posted by downtownnola

WTME: I wouldn't worry too much about CareuhAK... he's obviously a troll, and furthermore, he's in Alaska. I agree with cowboyxjon: I wish we could hand out negative rep points.

I meant to make a purposeful response. All that seems to have been said in wanttomoveeast's post which I responded to was that he was 'angry at whites' who believed racism was gone and "how the heck would they know?" Granted, I should have been more specific to Denver, but I didn't find his post particularly enlightening.

Being in Alaska prevents me from knowing anything about Denver? I guess no one can have lived in more than one place.

I'll refrain from any further responses in this particular thread, please note my apologies for starting out with a confrontation.

[wanttomoveeast]

The privileges I speak of pertain to whites, which undoubtedly you are. Glad you find my post interesting. I do believe that many whites are privileged and are completely unaware of that privilege. Apparently, this idea of privilege equates to you as money. Another obvious fact that you do not understand other minorities' struggles. I am tired of trying to "understand" people like you and would much rather just stay within my own group of thinkers.

I never made any direct statement to you regarding being angry, in fact, I said that I was angry when some whites said that racism did not exist. Amusing how you take this statement personally. I can't see why someone would be personally offended at a statement of "being angry at some blacks". It certainly is not specific or aimed at any one person. Perhaps a deeper look at the "white guilt" theory is appropriate here.

I do not think you are empathetic, I do not think you really have a stance to post on this thread. Do you live here now? It seems not. Many of the posters, myself included, are native, and therefore in my opinion have a much better grasp of race and Denver than you.

I have white friends too. Therefore I'm empathatic. Stupid.

Most of my comments here were in response to the OP, however, I do admit that your post annoyed the h*** out of me.

Segragation in Denver? Suuuuure. I think there is 8% of blacks here. Super segregated. There aren't even enough blacks here to be segregated. And if you lived in the South, surely you can see the difference. It's quite obvious.

Thank you for your post. Please go back to Alaska.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

Pointless accustations are not what I was aiming for, and certainly not what I feel I've said. Although I find it interesting that in one inclusive post you have said "I think before I type and am often careful about not making generalizations" and then later "Not everyone was born in the cushy, posh, privileged majority like you, and you might fare better at least to try to understand."

I'm sorry. It seems that because of your assumptions about my 'priveldged' life and your obvious contempt for those who are so 'priveledged' you may need to 'at least try to understand' that I grew up in a less than priveleged circle and can empathize with struggles with race and social, economic and educational levels. No, I can't imagine being of any other race than my own, but I think it fair to defend myself and state my opinion when someone states they are 'angry at whites', just as much as someone might grow defensive if someone were 'angry at blacks'. I'm sorry that I don't appear empathetic, though all I can say is that a good portion of my life has and continues to involve learning from and participating in differing cultural groups in my area (including a wide range of Native Alaskan groups) and that I have deep ties and concerns with people of diverse backgrounds. I have cousins, one of whom is my closest friend, who have grown up multiracial, their mother is white and their father is black.

I simply feel that many of your comments are only serving the purpose of displaying your anger and don't necesarily reflect any specific instance in which you experienced the 'ignorance of whites'.

As to my experience with Denver and racism, I'll note that it can be somewhat segregated, and that bothers me. There is some isolation as far as neighborhoods and the markedly large majority of white people seems in part (emphasis on 'in part') to socialize within itself, which happens to be what I see in the south in certain areas. Missouri has a high percentage of blacks and in areas a majority, and I see the same trend of isolation. Each racial group takes its part in isolating itself from the other. In comparison to any other major city I know of, racism (which is sadly everywhere, as are all types of hate) is not as pronounced. There is certianly less violence, if not less discrimination. I'll note that each person's experience with any place can be completely different from another's experience.

[CareuhAK]

Wanttomoveeast:

As far as your own post pertained to Denver, I'll respond. Thats what this thread is about, as you've told me.

You yourself said you noticed isolation of races in their living areas, neighborhoods, suburbs, etc. Thats at least what it seemd you were saying.

The percentage of a minority doesn't play the only role in the segregation, a higher percentage mostly means it is much more pronounced. I can see the difference between Denver and the deep south, but I see a similar trend as the Denver area to that found in certain areas of Texas, in that very small groups of blacks or another race within a larger white population are grouped together in the places they live, perhaps because of family or other reasons. When I visit small towns outside of Austin, I see a notable seperation in where the different races live, even though the population percentages there are much smaller than whites.

The point I make is that regardless of a minority's percentage, there can still be seperation. The same seems to be true in areas of metropolitan Denver. (These areas are really much more multi-ethnic, rather than single-raced communities)

Yes, there is only roughly an 8% black population. But the percentage of minority groups as a whole now is similar to or even greater than whites. My only point to make with this is that there are other groups which are somewhat seperated or clumped in certain areas. Who said segregation only pertains to blacks? Segregation can be in and inbetween any racial groups, self enacted or be the result of economic position.

If there weren't social and other sperations and distinctions made due to race in Denver, I'd venture to guess that you wouldn't be so involved and knowledgable in the subject and your own experience.

Lastly: People might come to this thread for the sake of getting differing perspectives, and I would assume might want to know the views of different people.

You are a native to Denver, great. Thats your perspective.

I'm not, and I'd guess that I've lived in a greater number of places and therefore have a different perspective and can compare my time in Denver, (which was, granted, only 5 years) to the situations in other areas of the country.

I'm white, and have that perspective, which is more one of an outsider looking in. Perhaps less valid, but I'm concerned with what I DO know. Everyone's opinion is biased, simply because there is always background to what they say. Mine is different than yours. You clearly have a different experience.

[wanttomoveeast]

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

As far as your own post pertained to Denver, I'll respond. Thats what this thread is about, as you've told me.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

You yourself said you noticed isolation of races in their living areas, neighborhoods, suburbs, etc. Thats at least what it seemd you were saying.

What I see is a small percentage of blacks, asians, and other minorities, a larger group of Hispanics, in Denver. I see the burbs as mostly white, with some exceptions and yes including Aurora, Vegas (a poster here). This to me is not segregation, in that when I think of segregation, I think of entirely black, hispanic, asian areas wherein other groups do not venture. I do not see this happen here. I'm black and there isn't one area in Denver I have not ventured. Segregation carries a negative connotation, one in which a black might not venture in a hispanic area for fear of attack or otherwise. This is pretty much non-existent here.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

The percentage of a minority doesn't play the only role in the segregation, a higher percentage mostly means it is much more pronounced.

Finally something we can agree on.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

I can see the difference between Denver and the deep south...

I thought you were making statements of similarities of the South and Denver with regard to segregation just a post or two ago???

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

The point I make is that regardless of a minority's percentage, there can still be seperation. The same seems to be true in areas of metropolitan Denver. (These areas are really much more multi-ethnic, rather than single-raced communities).

Now we are arguing semantics, separation, segregation. I do not agree that regardless of a minority's percentage, there is segregation. There is a town here in Colo. I spent much of my younger years in. I was one of three blacks there, in a sea of whites. We three hung out. So are you telling me that town is segregated? That's just silly. Of course percentages matter, otherwise segregation wouldn't exist.

Perhaps a review of the definition of segregation would help here:

2 a: the separation or isolation of a race, class, or ethnic group by enforced or voluntary residence in a restricted area, by barriers to social intercourse, by separate educational facilities, or by other discriminatory means.

Merriam-Webster (online)

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

Yes, there is only roughly an 8% black population. But the percentage of minority groups as a whole now is similar to or even greater than whites.

What does this fact have to do with race relations in Denver as Denver is still predominantly white? Also, see definition of segregation above and then try to apply that to Denver.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

Who said segregation only pertains to blacks?

No one did. The topic came up because some of the posters on this thread are black myself included, therefore our perspectives are from that point of view.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

If there weren't social and other sperations and distinctions made due to race in Denver, I'd venture to guess that you wouldn't be so involved and knowledgable in the subject and your own experience.

Bad guess. You don't know me, although I can see you are making judgments based on my posts, which is really all you can do. I am knowledgeable in race in Denver becase a) I'm a native to Denver and b) I'm black. Also, I was a sociology major and find the subject just plain fascinating. These reasons really aren't your proof that there are social and other separations and distinctions in Denver. I suppose they are there, but they aren't the reason I'm so involved in this discussion.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

Lastly: People might come to this thread for the sake of getting differing perspectives, and I would assume might want to know the views of different people.

Agreed. Second agreement, we are making progress.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

I'm not, and I'd guess that I've lived in a greater number of places and therefore have a different perspective and can compare my time in Denver, (which was, granted, only 5 years) to the situations in other areas of the country.

Unfortunately I'll have to give you that one. Although try going outside of this country for a more rounded view of humanity.

Originally Posted by CareuhAK

I'm white, and have that perspective, which is more one of an outsider looking in. Perhaps less valid, but I'm concerned with what I DO know. Everyone's opinion is biased, simply because there is always background to what they say. Mine is different than yours. You clearly have a different experience.

See the bolded, underlined phrases. Yes, I do think your thoughts are a little less valid based on what you've told me. You spent 5 yrs. here, do not live here now, and are part of the majority. Yes, I do have a different experience as we are two distinctly unique humans.

[D-town 720]

Correction Denver is 11% African American

[wanttomoveeast]

As of the 2005-2007 Census, 9.9% African Americans are in the City of Denver. I'm thinking that's what city-data statistics are, so it might be better to find a metro Denver stat.

Denver County, Colorado - Fact Sheet - American FactFinder=

[pcollins22]

wanttomoveeast-

You should get an award. I don't think I have ever seen someone post so many replies on one thread.