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For once (maybe the only time) I agree with steve, regarding the elusive search for "good schools".
There are very few "bad" school districts in CO, and there is no one who is desirous of living in a "bad" district. Cherry Creek and Doug Co get a lot of publicity on this board, I think mostly b/c a lot of the posters live there. But in reality, they are not the only "good" districts around. As the3Ds says, Doug Co is very reluctant to vote more taxes, with all the implications of that. Still, their test scores, in most schools in that district, are good.
Any place you have acreage is going to have wealthy people and wealthier school districts, though that's been tamped down a bit by the school finance acts of 1989 and 1994. Poor districts get more state aid, and there is a cap on what wealthy districts can legally raise, above the state per-pupil level. It's not perfect, but it does equalize funding better than in some states.
I think people have given you a good idea of where the acreage areas are. Basically, they are at the edges of the metro area. Prices quoted are realistic.
In Cherry Creek SD, the Kindergarten sight words are 110. BIG difference and since reading is something that builds on itself, already by Kindergarten, the kids in Cherry Creek who are keeping up at minimum are already above DPS students.
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That's not a myth. Very smart kids are going to do well in any school but I want my kids in a school district, where, if they are merely MEETING the standards, they are already ahead of the curve. Put smart kids in a high-performing district and there's no limit to what they can achieve. There are kids who graduate top of their class who go on to college and realize they don't know anything compared to their classmates.
Again, these good school districts are a myth. You are only fooling yourself, the kindergarten statistics you provide are proof of as much. You have fooled yourself into believing something you seem to need to believe to justify something. So a district that has to handle 3 times the English as a second language kids has a requisite number of sight words (that under ideal circumstances are learned at home in the first place) that are fewer. How shocking! Maybe we should round up all kids and divide them by race and parental salary and teach to that standard instead? You are suggesting that the K teachers in the Denver district simply stop at some arbritary number that is less than that of other districts because ... welp that's the required number! Seriously.
A good education begins with a great teacher and requires solid parental involvement. These circumstances exist in every district in this state. Yes, as a district those who have both parents at home, parental involvement, parents who are not working 3 jobs to get by, they are on average going to test higher in the bull**** CSAP scores and they are going to graduate more children.
This has exactly no bearing on the quality of education available for a proactive parent and child in any district in this state.
I would also note that funding varies widely among districts and plays a role in the stats too. As the CC district ages out of the young population, as it has started to do, it too will suffer further angst at the hands of a populace that no longer wishes to support education first. So far as Cherry Creek is concerned, the pain has only just started.
So a district that has to handle 3 times the English as a second language kids has a requisite number of sight words (that under ideal circumstances are learned at home in the first place) that are fewer. How shocking! Maybe we should round up all kids and divide them by race and parental salary and teach to that standard instead?
A good education begins with a great teacher and requires solid parental involvement. These circumstances exist in every district in this state. Yes, as a district those who have both parents at home, parental involvement, parents who are not working 3 jobs to get by, they are on average going to test higher in the bull**** CSAP scores and they are going to graduate more children.
So far as Cherry Creek is concerned, the pain has only just started.
You are assuming that everyone in Cherry Creek speaks English as their first language which is incorrect. The statistics show that our school district is only getting MORE diverse (not less) so what has happened to those "underperforming" kids who came from mediocre school districts? Gee...they have been ABSORBED into the district and BIG SHOCKER...perform as well as the other kids because they are EXPECTED to.
Let's not have a discussion about economic levels because kids' brains don't underperform because their parents make less money. Kids underperform because their parents don't give a crap that they aren't doing their homework and most of the time, don't even bother showing up to parent/teacher conferences. I also know that Cherry Creek is primarily a middle-income school district which means that most of the parents aren't living the life of luxury...most of them are working their butts off just like everyone else. At our 1st PTO meeting this year, we spent nearly 45 minutes trying to work around the economic reality of what our neighborhood is going through. Last year we had lots of "restaurant nights" and heavily supported fundraisers. This year, it's going to have to change because people just don't have the money to do the same stuff. We are going to do a book sale where we make NO money whatsoever. The books will be sold at cost in order to help out families but still provide them with the most essential thing to an education---books. Cherry Creek isn't immune to the economic hardships that most families are experiencing. The teachers are asking for more and more money for special projects, so we have to decide where to cut. At least in my school, the truly important programs (like Reading Together which brings underperforming 2nd grade readers together with 5th grade tutors and has proven 100% effective in bringing those kids up to their expected reading level) that make a direct difference to the kids is being kept. Everything else is up for negotiation according to the budget.
Good school districts go hand-in-hand with involved parents, involved teachers and higher expectations. That's the reality. I come from a family of teachers and every single one of them can tell you that while they make their way through whatever requirements the state makes you meet (CSAPs here in Colorado), you've also got to teach them what the district requires of you. So, yes, to answer your question...it is VERY possible that in DPS, the teachers stop at the required sight words. They have to because they need to do whatever the CSAP requires. That doesn't mean that there aren't kids who read well above their level. Many kids (mine included) do. However, teachers just need to make sure that every kid in their classroom is reading the required words for their districts. I would never say that is okay but in this educational climate, that's just the reality.
Listen...you and I can sit here all day and argue school districts and expectations. Unless there is a medical issue that prohibits them from doing so, kids are going to rise to the level of expectations. When we began our househunt, we searched for a school district with high expectations. A smart kid is going to do well wherever they go. My kids are just starting out so while I think they are brilliant , the reality is that there is a good chance they will do just "average" in school. Doing "just average" in Cherry Creek will mean that they are reading above the kids doing "just average" in DPS.
BTW, I am just using DPS as an example and since most tables from the Colorado Dept of Education compare DPS with the other metro school districts, it just makes it easier.
And as far as Cherry Creek's financial pain goes...we'll just have to wait and see. I don't know any good reason for living on the outskirts of metro-Denver (where the Cherry Creek boundaries are) unless you did so for the school district. Homes aren't any cheaper out here...most of them are well above the average. As more and more parents and kids move out here, there will continue to be support for the schools. I was involved in going house-to-house to garner support for the bond/levy last year. The person who gave me my assignment made sure to tell me that the area I was heading to was primarily full of retirees so it would be a harder "sell." I found just the opposite to be true. The first person I spoke with was a very old lady who said she wanted to have good schools because it kept out the "troublemakers." Not everyone voted for the bond/levy because they have kids in school. Most of us know that good school districts are a good selling point when it's time to move.
This has exactly no bearing on the quality of education available for a proactive parent and child in any district in this state.
Either you're not a parent or you haven't been paying attention at parent/teacher conference time.
A proactive parent is going to go to their first parent/teacher conference and the teacher is going to give them the "plan" for the year, in accordance with the district requirements. Every paper I have from parent teacher conferences has the CCSD logo on it as well as the district information. The school district, not the state, determines the teacher's lesson plans.
If the parent sits down and does homework with their child every night and makes sure they always get As on their spelling and math, they are only getting As according to the district lesson plans. My child's homework from CCSD is different than a 1st grader's in DPS.
You can be as proactive as you want and hopefully the teacher is going to recognize if your child is above the requirements, but the reality is this...your child's homework is merely a stepping stone to the end-result of what they should know by the time they finish that grade.
CCSD has higher expectations of what they should know (I am only speaking of Kindergarten and 1st grade since my kids are in those grades, but I imagine the same can be said for every grade until they graduate) and their test scores (which regularly fall well above the Colorado average and well above the national average) are just another reflection of their high standards. Until there is a better way to test kids from one side of the country to the other on what they actually know (versus these stupid state-by-state tests which seem to only dumb down their requirements every year), the SATs are a good way to measure what the kids know by the time they receive their diploma.
It also explains why Cherry Creek SD, year after year, ranks in the top for accreditation. This year, it's called "Accredited with Distinction." Next year, it will probably be called something different. Seems Colorado keeps changing their school grading system so that other districts don't "have their feelings hurt" but year after year Cherry Creek is one of those at the top. Lesson learned there: If you stop worrying about being called an "A" school, or a "High-performing" school, or a school that is "accredited with distinction" and just keep your eye on the ball, your school district will always perform well. Cherry Creek does. Not every school, but the district as a whole which means that if someone moves to the area and is looking for a good school, the chances are higher in a good district. Nothing is guaranteed, but you've got to play the averages.
There is a virtual straight line association between test scores and Socio-economic status, every district, everywhere. This does not mean anything, however, for the individual student. Going to a high scoring school does not mean your child will score high.
Do you have any disaggregated scores for CCSD? That is, scores broken down by race, or by free/reduced lunch participants? I aks b/c Boulder Valley is a high scoring district in general, but has a huge disparity between Hispanic students and non-hispanic students. I couldn't find this on the CCSD website.
We are looking to relo from MN to CO and have two kids approaching jr high and high school. We would like to have some space (an acre plus) and horse property would be a bonus We'd like to be reasonably close to good shopping and restaurants, etc. Good schools are important. We would to be near/in the foothills or have some nice views. I'd appreciate any info on areas to consider.
Let me give you the advice you need. Look in West Arvada and and areas of unincorporated Jefferson County Just west of Arvada, in Leyden, and North of Golden. Zip Code 80004, 80007, 80002, 80005.
These areas are in and near the Ralston Valley. It has larger homesteads, horse properties and farms. You are near shopping in Arvada, Golden, Wheat Ridge and you are not too far from any urban area. But, you will be in rolling hills with trees and waterways which is rare in the sparse plains of the front range. You will be just next to the foothills and the recreation amenities and good views.
Arvada is a city that has developed as a separate agricultural community, with an old town center, and is in the western suburbs of Denver. It has a great sense of community with excellent recreational facilities.
The School system is the largest in the State and well regarded--Jefferson County School System.
I looked at these areas on Google Map and put in a Real Estate Layer. There are homes with the acreage you need that are horse properties.
I drove by this house the other day. It is on 2 acres. It is a horse property and it is located right down the road from the largest recreation center with pools, ice arenas in the metro area, Apex Center. The house does give the idea of the layout of the land in this area. It is within 2 miles of new schools under Jefferson County.
Wow, this is really a good find. It has 2.25 acres. It is not in the sticks. It is in the City of Arvada. Shopping in within 2 miles and get this---it is listed at $575,000. I use to live right down the road to the east--great area. From here, you are only about 12 miles to the middle of Downtown Denver.
I grew up in Western New York near Buffalo and it is difficult to find a property with trees, a pond, a creek in this semi-arid area. Maybe I will buy it.
What do you other readers think of this property in Ralston Valley???
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 09-06-2009 at 07:29 PM..
It seems several respondents totally understood what this post was about, understood their requirements, and were capable of offering very helpful advice. For those of you that find the requirements frustrating, maybe this would be a better community if you kept those thoughts to yourself instead of offering unhelpful critiques? Just a thought!
It seems several respondents totally understood what this post was about, understood their requirements, and were capable of offering very helpful advice. For those of you that find the requirements frustrating, maybe this would be a better community if you kept those thoughts to yourself instead of offering unhelpful critiques? Just a thought!
Well, I think it happens on a lot of forums; people introduce their own biases. I for one think this "good schools" thing is a bunch of hooey, and have said so previously. Who is looking for "bad schools" or "mediocre schools"? So as soon as people start saying, "You have to buy in Cherry Creek, Douglas County, blah, blah, I feel the need to put my 2c in that it ain't so, and say "why". I agree we got a bit hijacked about test scores, etc.
Also, as livecontent said, finding "acreage" around here, particularly wooded acreage, is not easy. I've been to Minneapolis, where the yards are bigger in the burbs than they are here. The property he found sounds wonderful. If I were on the market, I'd look at it seriously.
Whew...didn't mean to stir up the school debate. Thanks to those who gave me specific areas to begin searching. We really need to get out to these areas and get a "feel" for the communities that suit our needs. We are faced with the decision of relocating for work to Denver area or back home to AZ, although I'm not sure AZ is calling us back!
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, the reality is that there is a good chance they will do just "average" in school. Doing "just average" in Cherry Creek will mean that they are reading above the kids doing "just average" in DPS. 
