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Colorado similar to California, full of self-centered jerks, Orange County stereotypes, rude people everywhere, Rocky Mountain west rich in history, characterized big small towns

 
 
Old 05-02-2007, 08:29 PM
 
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Default Is CO as full of self-centered jerks like CA?

I've never lived outside of Orange County (SoCal) so I don't have anything to compare it to. But it seems that the older I get (33 now) the more frustrated I get with all the a-holes that act like they're the center of the universe, nobody else matters, and the rules don't apply to them. For example, the guy in the big lifted truck with the balls hanging off the trailer hitch that rides everyone's bumper and parks across 2 spaces all with a cell phone on his ear. Or the guy that constantly breaks appointments because he's soooo busy but expects you to drop everything when he calls.

Doesn't anyone have any consideration for others anymore? Or is this just the way America is in the 21st century?

 
Old 05-02-2007, 08:37 PM
Status: "Corn well over knee high!" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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I work in a dr's office and I would say the answer to your main question is "yes"; there are plenty of people such as you describe in Colorado. I mention my work because that is where I see a lot of the attitude that the rules don't apply to them.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Lakewood, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
I've never lived outside of Orange County (SoCal) so I don't have anything to compare it to. But it seems that the older I get (33 now) the more frustrated I get with all the a-holes that act like they're the center of the universe, nobody else matters, and the rules don't apply to them. For example, the guy in the big lifted truck with the balls hanging off the trailer hitch that rides everyone's bumper and parks across 2 spaces all with a cell phone on his ear. Or the guy that constantly breaks appointments because he's soooo busy but expects you to drop everything when he calls.

Doesn't anyone have any consideration for others anymore? Or is this just the way America is in the 21st century?
No.

First things first: THERE ARE JERKS EVERYWHERE. The scenario you described above plays itself out in cities across the country every day. There are rude people in California, there are rude people in Colorado, there are rude people in Georgia. There are rude people everywhere.

Studies show that something like 90 percent of people think civility and morals are worse than they were before. I'm sure you'd agree. But these studies also show that only a handful of folks think THEIR morals and manners are worse than before. That means that there's a whole lot of people out there with planks in their eyes and they're hyperventilating over the specs in others' eyes.

Let's put it this way: If you can't handle the jerk in Orange County what makes you think you can handle him here?

You may want to "EscapeCalifornia" but what makes you think that what you're escaping there you won't find here or there or anywhere? You just don't like green eggs and ham and rude people! But they're everywhere.

I know so many people from 'rude states' and came here because when they visited they found it peaceful, the peolple laid back and friendly, the culture relaxing, the mountains awesome, and so on and on. But after a while they started to realize that many of the things they were running from caught up with them here. The people may be friendly--but they can also seem bland and cultureless. The mountains may be majestic but they can also be cold, snowy, and too hard to get to. The culture may be relaxing but it can also be boring, stifling, isolated, and conservative.

Do you get my gist? If your problem is rude people then stay where you are and work ignoring it, dealing with it, and fighting against it. I left Denver, ironically to the West Coast, because I thought people here were too self-absorped, too conservative, too bland, etc. I came back a year later because I realized that those quirks, annoyances, would be exactly that which I would most miss! Compared to the West Coast I would grow to love the people I so railed against here.

To answer your question directly: This is not California and people are not quite as self-absorped. Some are some aren't but it's probably not as bad as flakey California.

But don't move here for that reason. People are friendlier in Alabama--but I doubt you'd choose to move there.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 09:00 PM
 
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Is that the way Colorado (and a lot of the rest of America) is, anymore? Short answer, yes. Self-centered ******s? There are plenty of 'em in Colorado--some home-grown and a lot transplanted. My personal opinion is that it is a national condition, brought about by too much easy prosperity, the pernicious effects of the "cocooning" that goes on in our suburbs (which is where most Americans live), the media-induced "sameness" that tends to destroy the "sense of place" that one used to find in a community, and--most probably--the effects of just too darn many people, period.

You don't find "the attitude" as prevelant in small-town America, though the constant bombardment of the national media is just as pervasive in the small towns and is making the people in them act with more of a "suburban" "I want it all--for me--right now!" attitude all the time. Quite frankly, I do not consider a lot of smaller communities in Colorado anything akin to a typical small town. First, a lot of them are jammed with recent suburban transplants who profess to want small-town values, but then set about making the town just like the suburb they left. Second, there's the fact that many Colorado small towns are resorts--full of transient people (both working there and vacationing there) who don't have any stake in the community. They are sort of like an amusement park version of a small town. It sort of looks like a typcial small town, but when you look underneath the facade, you find out that it's pretty much a manufactured illusion.

The few towns in Colorado that still have strong senses of community and have fewer of the self-centered people you describe tend to be the more non-tourist-oriented, agricutural communities. I've lived in a couple of them and there is a palpable difference in the attitude of people.

As for the metro areas, they used to be characterized as "big small towns." A lot of the residents were from small towns and still had small-town friendliness. I have watched a lot of that disappear in the Colorado metro areas during my lifetime. Yeah, Denver is probably friendlier than, say, New York City, but it's no where near as friendly a place as it used to be.

I'm sure that there will be flames aplenty from people who say I'm wrong. I'd wager, however, that most of them have never lived in anything but suburbia. Personally, I've lived in everything from metro Denver, to small towns, to a ranch where the nearest neighbor was two miles away. I've also lived in towns considered "tourist towns" and those that weren't.

I still love the geography and rich history of the Rocky Mountain west. I am a native of it and have lived here all of my life. But, if I was looking for a town with solid citizens, a true sense of community, and people who really cared about each other, I would look at some of the very nice towns in the Midwest. I also have family roots in that region and there are some great communities and people there.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 09:01 PM
 
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I want out of California because $600k starter homes simply make no sense on a middle class income. I've heard good things about the front range and will be there later this month to check it out. I know the houses are definitely more affordable there. This post was just a side thought. If I really wanted to escape jerks, I'd probably be looking at one room shacks somewhere in Alaska.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Lakewood, CO
353 posts, read 3,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
I want out of California because $600k starter homes simply make no sense on a middle class income. I've heard good things about the front range and will be there later this month to check it out. I know the houses are definitely more affordable there. This post was just a side thought. If I really wanted to escape jerks, I'd probably be looking at one room shacks somewhere in Alaska.

What about it perks your interest specifically? It's more affordable--but certainly not more than a whole lot of other places.

By the way, Denver is a lot like Orange County. It's not as fancy, worse weather, and nicer people--but the OC is a good analogy to a large part of Denver.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlings View Post
What about it perks your interest specifically? It's more affordable--but certainly not more than a whole lot of other places.

By the way, Denver is a lot like Orange County. It's not as fancy, worse weather, and nicer people--but the OC is a good analogy to a large part of Denver.
Everyone says the weather isn't that bad in Denver. Yeah, its no SoCal, but nowhere else is either. I think I'd be able to handle Denver's combination of cold but dry and sunny better than most other climates in the country. I also need a big enough metro area to support myself so I have to be realistic when searching for a new home city. A $100k house in Iowa would be just as expensive as my $600k house in California if I couldn't make more than $12/hr there.

I'm hoping to get enough equity out of California to put down a nice payment on a modest house elsewhere and work my way up they way people used to be able to do in California.

I rather like the overall environment in Orange County, I just can't afford the lifestyle I want here. The middle class American ideal of owning a single family home with a couple of kids and a dog just isn't possible here anymore unless you make tons and tons of money. If Denver is a lot like OC, but with home prices from 30 years ago, that'd be fine with me.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Lakewood, CO
353 posts, read 3,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Everyone says the weather isn't that bad in Denver. Yeah, its no SoCal, but nowhere else is either. I think I'd be able to handle Denver's combination of cold but dry and sunny better than most other climates in the country. I also need a big enough metro area to support myself so I have to be realistic when searching for a new home city. A $100k house in Iowa would be just as expensive as my $600k house in California if I couldn't make more than $12/hr there.

I'm hoping to get enough equity out of California to put down a nice payment on a modest house elsewhere and work my way up they way people used to be able to do in California.

I rather like the overall environment in Orange County, I just can't afford the lifestyle I want here. The middle class American ideal of owning a single family home with a couple of kids and a dog just isn't possible here anymore unless you make tons and tons of money. If Denver is a lot like OC, but with home prices from 30 years ago, that'd be fine with me.
Yeah. In fact, if I were to live anywhere in California it would be Orange County. (Most Republican county in America! ). Like I said, you'll find the same sort of attitudes, same kind of culture, but everything just a little more toned down in Denver. It's not as wealthy, not as fancy, not as flakey--and all of that is probably a good thing. But I would say that Denver is probably a mix of Simi Valley, San Diego, OC, and the Inland Empire. People don't realize how 'cowboy' SoCal can really be once you're outside of Los Angeles. I'm not sure how true that is in the OC--but you'll find that same dynamic in Denver.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 10:34 PM
 
11,728 posts, read 22,912,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlings View Post
Yeah. In fact, if I were to live anywhere in California it would be Orange County. (Most Republican county in America! ). Like I said, you'll find the same sort of attitudes, same kind of culture, but everything just a little more toned down in Denver. It's not as wealthy, not as fancy, not as flakey--and all of that is probably a good thing. But I would say that Denver is probably a mix of Simi Valley, San Diego, OC, and the Inland Empire. People don't realize how 'cowboy' SoCal can really be once you're outside of Los Angeles. I'm not sure how true that is in the OC--but you'll find that same dynamic in Denver.
Sounds like Denver might fit me well then. I'm fairly conservative but more so fiscally than socially. Sort of "live and let live, but do it with your own money, not mine." You're right about California being different outside of LA. Go up the coast a little bit and its like a different world. Or rather, more like the rest of the country.
 
Old 05-02-2007, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Lakewood, CO
353 posts, read 3,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Sounds like Denver might fit me well then. I'm fairly conservative but more so fiscally than socially. Sort of "live and let live, but do it with your own money, not mine." You're right about California being different outside of LA. Go up the coast a little bit and its like a different world. Or rather, more like the rest of the country.
Lisa Girr wrote a book a while back called, "Suburban Warrior: Rise of the New American Right." In it she uses Orange County as an example of the new conservatism in America. She argues that it was middle American, midwestern transplants that transported a 'capitalist religious morality' to the coast and supplanted the traditional, progressive coastal ethos.

What's ironic is that there's a reverse trend going on now. Now it's those very same transplants and conservative California natives who are returning the favor to the midwest by moving into the middle of 'red america' and fortifying the socially--and fiscally--conservative values that are pervasive there.

Some folks rail against Californians in Colorado because of their "hollywood values." The reality is that Californian immigration to Colorado probably made us more--not less--conservative. Conservative Californians saw Colorado--quite rightly--as a cheaper, equally attractive environment where people shared their religious and economic values. Remember, James Dobson moved Focus on the Family from SoCal to Colorado Springs and he brought a whole lot of his followers into the state in the 90s.

The moral of the story is that Coloradans should be a whole lot more welcoming to Californians. The state went 45% for Bush--meaning that it is a statistical probability that at least for every liberal granola-crunching Californian that comes here there's another conservative, evangelical OC family riding in on their trusty steed looking for a cheaper living. But that's not quite accurate either because a lot of those tofu-mashers would probably look to liberal states like Oregon and Washington and not conservative ones like Colorado and Texas to move. That means that the majority of Californians that Colorado is fielding are probably mostly conservative.

Anyway, I think Douglas County--and really the entire metro area plus the Springs--could be the next Orange County and the next subject of a book on American conservatism. David Brooks of the New York Times wrote an article you can find online called "The New Red Diaper Babies." In it he uses Douglas County specifically to highlight a new trend in red states like Colorado: nativism. Politically conservative and morally traditional--but high income--families in the suburbs are opting for a lifestyle of huge families where the mom stays home and even homeschools on religious values. That's makes newer suburban counties grow into mammoth metro areas.

Not coincidentally Douglas County, for a time in the early 2000s, was the fastest growing county in America. Colorado has one of the highest birth rates in the nation and is famous for its celebration of homeschooling.

I know a lot of Denverites who moved to Orange County. A friend of mine is a big syndicatd conservative radio talk host in Orange County and he's always waxing on about how much he loves it here. In Orange County it's a morally and fiscally conservative bubble in a blue state. In Colorado the metro area blends in much better with its red surroundings--though there are interesting blue pockets in the state like Boulder and elsewhere.

So, I encourage you to visit here. My guess is that you'll love it. The weather, the people, the politics, the affordability--all of it is leaning your way.
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