Tolls on E-470 and commuting on 85. (Denver, Aurora: crime, mortgage, loan)

[AMPL]

We are considering moving to CO maybe south of Denver.
We came across the tolls for E-470.
What do Coloradoans think of this concept? – That the state lets a private organization take over, with toll collection? – by the way extremely expensive! – Is anyone using this freeway? We have maybe misunderstood the concept?
How is 85, from E-470 to I-25 in the morning commute hour and in the afternoon? It looks like 85 is an expressway - how are the traffic lights, are they adjusted for a reasonable free flow of traffic?

We would appreciate any input, thanks

[eon-krate32]

E-470 is a nice road, but the tolls are ridiculously expensive (even higher than the notorious Kansas and Oklahoma tollways). Thus I try to avoid 470 as much as possible. Same with 85; traffic here always sucked when I drove on it.

[cowboyxjon]

E-470 (the toll portion) stops at I-25, so if you're wondering about the cost to travel the stretch of C-470 between US-85 (Santa Fe Avenue) east to I-25, there is none. The toll portion (E-470) starts east of I-25 all the way up around to the end of the loop at I-25 north of Thornton.

I don't have a problem with a private company collecting tolls, but I don't know many people who actually use the toll portion of E-470 consistently. I've lived here for three years and have used it once, just to beat rush hour traffic.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by AMPL

We are considering moving to CO maybe south of Denver.
We came across the tolls for E-470.
What do Coloradoans think of this concept? – That the state lets a private organization take over, with toll collection? – by the way extremely expensive! – Is anyone using this freeway? We have maybe misunderstood the concept?
How is 85, from E-470 to I-25 in the morning commute hour and in the afternoon? It looks like 85 is an expressway - how are the traffic lights, are they adjusted for a reasonable free flow of traffic?

We would appreciate any input, thanks

You are preaching to the choir as I live in SE Aurora and in order for my husband to commute to his job at DIA, the toll road is the only viable option. That being said, it's the ONLY time we take the toll road as we (and it seems everyone else who lives out here) know the other ways to get around the city. You're right saying it's expensive...I believe it's one of the most expensive roads out there. It's the only "negative thing" I can think of about this side of the city, so when we were searching for a house, we took the tolls into consideration. We budget $200 per month in tolls for my husband to commute to DIA. Basic math: We pay $2400 per year in tolls which will be $72,000 over the course of our 30-year home loan. BUT (and this is the silver lining)...our mortgage is $230,000 for our 4-bedroom house in a fantastic school district and neighborhood and the other 3 homes we looked at (and seriously considered) were either right at (or above) $300,000. So, it all comes out in the wash. Also, my husband isn't going to be working at DIA for 30 years anyway and when he works different shifts, he takes the back roads which saves us money.

Toll Roads are a taboo subject for most of the country except the East Coast. My parents come to visit and my dad will literally drive out of his way in order to avoid the tolls. We lived in Florida before moving to Denver so it didn't seem that unusual to us. You really cannot get anywhere in Florida without paying a toll.

When the toll road went in, the cities that are serviced by the road agreed to comply with non-competition rules saying the roads nearby basically have to be "inconvenient". That means speed limits were lowered, stop lights were put in (and don't help the flow of traffic...in fact they purposefully hinder it), and the surface roads typically add a lot of minutes to your commute. But, as anyone out here can verify, that doesn't stop the people who go out of their way to avoid the tolls. The stop lights are backed up with dozens of cars during "rush hour".

Bottom line...if you find a house that you love and the only negative is that it's near the 470, I would buy the house! There are lot of people who declare it "the road to nowhere" as if no one could possibly EVER want to live on this side of the city, but there are hundreds of thousands of people living and thriving out here who would disagree. At least for the southern part of the toll road, the area is serviced by fantastic school districts (Cherry Creek and Douglas County), and the cities are low-crime and friendly. It's suburbia...some people hate it and some people love it. The toll road is just a fact of life but it won't be long after moving here that you will discover the ways around it. My neighbors all work in the Tech Center and don't take the toll road for anything other than going to the airport.

[Davros]

Originally Posted by AMPL

We are considering moving to CO maybe south of Denver.
We came across the tolls for E-470.
What do Coloradoans think of this concept? – That the state lets a private organization take over, with toll collection? – by the way extremely expensive! – Is anyone using this freeway? We have maybe misunderstood the concept?
How is 85, from E-470 to I-25 in the morning commute hour and in the afternoon? It looks like 85 is an expressway - how are the traffic lights, are they adjusted for a reasonable free flow of traffic?

We would appreciate any input, thanks

85 is Santa Fe Drive. It's kind of an expressway from Belleview to Evans, but with a few traffic lights such as for the exits to Hampden (285). Morning rush hour traffic is pretty bad on Santa Fe. There is an HOV lane if you carpool. Are you working close enough to the light rail that you could use the Park and Ride at Santa Fe and Mineral ? I don't know how fast the lot fills up in the morning, but I think it does fill up each day. There are a handfull of feeder buses. Check out the rtd denver websuite for bus information.

[afwolf33]

Does anybody know if E-470 will ever be converted to a toll free road, say the government takes it over and it becomes I-470?? or something along those lines? you would think if enough people move to that area and use that road they would have to get rid of the toll..

[EscapeCalifornia]

Originally Posted by afwolf33

Does anybody know if E-470 will ever be converted to a toll free road, say the government takes it over and it becomes I-470?? or something along those lines? you would think if enough people move to that area and use that road they would have to get rid of the toll..

Why would they have to get rid of the toll if more people are using it? That sounds like a cash cow. I don't have a problem with a private company stepping in and building a road if the government won't. That doesn't mean I have to use it though.

[tfox]

Originally Posted by afwolf33

Does anybody know if E-470 will ever be converted to a toll free road, say the government takes it over and it becomes I-470?? or something along those lines? you would think if enough people move to that area and use that road they would have to get rid of the toll..

E-470 is not owned or operated by a private company. It's a owned by a public sector authority with mainly cities and counties on the board. I don't think toll collection is even outsourced on E-470, but they did outsource it on the NW Parkway. The tolls are set up to generate revenue to pay off the bonds used to construct the highway, as well as pay for maintenance. E-470 actually does get state money too, in addition to tolls. When you register your vehicle you'll notice an E-470 tax.

As for whether it will be converted into a free road, it may be one day (The Boulder Turnpike was once toll and is now free). But certainly not before bonds are paid off, which I believe are many decades in length. And, the Boulder Turnpike "turning free" is actually quite unusual -- most eastern turnpikes continue to charge tolls many decades after their original construction, ostensibly to cover maintenance. Now that the tolling operation is up-and-running, I seriously doubt the state will ever turn loose of that steady revenue stream.

As for an I-470, I doubt that will ever happen. The feds actually offered Colorado federal money for a perimeter interstate named I-470 in the '70s, and the state, led by Dick Lamm, turned it down for environmental and anti-sprawl reasons. The state instead just took the federal cash and spent it on other other things, among them the current C-470, but also many other highway projects and even other types of projects. (The state build C-470 much cheaper than it would have cost to build the same route as an interstate due to less bureaucratic issues, but on the other hand it would be kind of nice to have an interstate highway as I-470 today). Anyway, I'm sure if Colorado comes back to the Feds asking for more money for an I-470, that request isn't going to go anywhere.

I actually am okay with E-470 being a toll road -- it isn't a through road like I-25 or I-70, but it's a perimeter or loop road -- what that means is that it's mainly for the benefit of people who choose to live around there. What's more, most of the housing along E-470 is fairly new, constructed since the toll road was built and definitely since it was planned, and so people knew going in that paying tolls on E-470 was part of the deal. So, it seems fair to me -- the people who use the road are the ones who pay for it. About the only section that is commonly used by non-residents is the I-25 north to DIA section -- it's probably the best way for people in Fort Collins and points north to get to DIA -- but again, it seems fair for those users to pay when they need the convenience of getting to DIA. (Those coming from the south are more likely to use I-25 to I-225 for that purpose, so it's not as useful for them).

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by tfox

What's more, most of the housing along E-470 is fairly new, constructed since the toll road was built and definitely since it was planned, and so people knew going in that paying tolls on E-470 was part of the deal. So, it seems fair to me -- the people who use the road are the ones who pay for it.

Ah yes...it's another "Suburban residents are evil sprawl-mongers and should be punished" post.

To those looking for homes "way out here in 'hell'", I would remind you that the toll road is only used for convenience. I lived in Florida where toll roads were a necessity as there weren't side streets that went anywhere fast and certainly nothing resembling an access road that practically paralleled the toll roads.

We (and hundreds of thousands of others in Centennial, Aurora and Parker) live, shop, eat out, get to entertainment, socialize, drive to the mountains, etc, etc, and the only time our car ever gets on the toll road is for my husband to get to DIA (and sometimes not even then).

There are roads all over the place to get you anywhere you want without paying. Many of those roads are 3-4 lanes with 55 mph speed limits and traffic lights that are in synch so if you go the speed limit, you will hit nothing but green lights until you get to the I-25 (we have done the "experiment" and can vouch that this is true). Arapahoe Rd, Smoky Hill Rd and Parker Rd are all big, busy roads full of traffic getting people around the city for free. Once you move out here, you'll find all the so-called backroads.

Don't let the toll road deter you from buying a house in a low-crime, excellent school districts, suburban neighborhood that line the roads on this side of the city. Life out here is great and as someone who goes downtown a lot, it's 35 minutes from my driveway to a meter and a piece of cake. It's 55 minutes to the Divide and also very easy. The price of homes are lower and you get a lot more for your money on this side of the city. It's not for everyone as I never recommend a long daily commute for anyone moving here, but if your job is on this side of the city, you'd be silly not to take a look...especially if you have kids.

[Currency Pair Crocodile]

470 is a nice road?!?!?!? With just 2 lanes??