What Killed Detroit (Coleman: environment, relocate, jobs)

[Maxine3]

You're calling Mayor Hubbard and idiot?
You had Colman Young.

[simlifgal]

Originally Posted by Maxine3

You're calling Mayor Hubbard and idiot?
You had Colman Young.

and neither of them did anything other than severly increase racial tension. Perhaps it's all part of a bygone era. we like to think of ourselves as modern thinkers, who don't see color. and yet the battle lines seem to be clearly drawn. What I am saying is that to put the blame entirely on one person or one misjudgement is unreasonable. a bad combination of hatred and poor choices brought us to the state we are in now. to souly base these problems on the city of detroit is also insane. there are a lot of pieces. there is not one universal answear, and this continued search for that one thing that will bring back detroits glory days is only allowing the situtaion to worsen. there is not one desicion that will fix all the problems, but there are things that can be done. instead of doing those things, it seems like the entire collection of detroit government would rather point the finger. too many stubborn bullheaded people unwilling to play the give and take dance...these things take time, and times awastin...

and yes, I am calling mayor hubbard a racist, ill-informed idiot. quite honestly, I was under the impression that was a historical fact?

[Maxine3]

unreasonable...
insane...
Colman Young was the pebble that started the landslide.
Why would the 'burbs lift a finger (except the middle one) to help pull Detroit up when all they get in return is hate.
Racism goes both ways.

[and the]

....and neither of them did anything other than severly increase racial tension.......and yes, I am calling mayor hubbard a racist, ill-informed idiot. quite honestly, I was under the impression that was a historical fact?

Here's part of Hubbard's legacy: Every neighborhood had a park within walking distance, most neighborhoods had a park with a pool within walking distance. The building code was seriously tightened up under his administration. Any new construction had to be brick. Hubbard was praciticing "broken windows" theory long before they used it in NYC to turn the city around. Hubbard vehemently opposed federally subsidized housing for war workers when the war (WWII) was, for all intents and purposes already won and the war contracts were already running out. Would you like hastily erected housing meant to be "temporary" turning into a permanent housing project in your neighborhood? How did the area around Detroit's Herman Gardens look to you? Would you like to live there?

What was Coleman Young's legacy besides "No white person hired until the last black person on the list is hired"? Let's see....we have Krugerandgate, Ken Weinergate, White Boy Rickgate, Chief Hart and the money in the ceilinggate, junkets to Vegas on the police airplanegate, Magnumoilgate, Vistadisposalgate, Joel Lovinggate...I could go on and on......

Hubbard was a segregationist, no doubt about it, and probably a racist. But so is the current administration of the City of Detroit when you get right down to it. And they're losing lawsuits because of it too. And have been for quite a while.

Say what you will about Hubbard. He was a lot of things, but "idiot" wasn't one of them. He lived for the city he represented. He didn't live in a mansion, he didn't have lavish parties and when the feds came calling, it wasn't because he was a thief. The guy died mostly broke. Can you say the same for Coleman "Krugerand" Young? Kwami "Navigator for my Wife" Kilpatrick?

There are a few people who are largely responsible for destroying Detroit, above and beyond what was inevitable. Justin Ravitz was one. George Crockett was another and Coleman Young was in that group as well.

What did Orville Hubbard do to lower the standard of living in Dearborn compared to what Young and Ravitz did to the City of Detroit?

Here's a big difference between Young and Hubbard: If Hubbard had a problem with armed robberies, and he had a police unit that was responsible for cutting armed robberies by 20%, he would add MORE officers to this unit, no matter the race of the armed robbers who were being shot.

On the other hand, when Coleman Young had a problem with armed robberies, and it was learned that most of the armed robbers who were being shot in the act of robbing others at gunpoint were BLACK, he disbanded the unit as soon as he was elected!

And you wonder why crime is such a big problem in Detroit as compared to the suburbs? Do you REALLY wonder, or is it just politically correct to APPEAR to be wondering?

[simlifgal]

Im not saying young doesn't hold his fair share of blame. and your right, it goes both ways. what im saying is that it seems to me most people are quick to blame young. the entire theroy behind saying the burbs didnt have to help because detroit hated white people is the sort of thinking that leaves us all gridlocked over whos to blame. Young did nothing to ease the friction between blacks and whites, but hubbard went out of his way to encourage it. people were raised different back then, with different views of right and wrong, differnt moral compasses if you will. but we are still fighting their fight
"racism goes both ways" is true. I know white people who detest black people , and I also know black people who hate white people. thats a fact. thats a part of life. but its also a huge road block and one no one seems eager to remove or even attempt to work around. thats something that has to come from both sides, but no one is willing to go first.

[and the]

Hubbard has been gone since the 70's. Hubbard's successors have been very different than he was. On the other hand, the leadership of the City of Detroit follows the roadmap layed out by Coleman A. Young, Mayor. The "Hip Hop" Mayor? Puh-LEASE.

[simlifgal]

Originally Posted by and the

What did Orville Hubbard do to lower the standard of living in Dearborn compared to what Young and Ravitz did to the City of Detroit?

ok, I do need to rephrase what I said. Hubbard did care about his city, and my calling him an idoit is probably not entirely accurate, but his veiws were off base. Yes, Dearborn was and is a great place to live, especially if your not black. Detroit on the otherhand is not a great place to live, especially if your white.

Im saying there were mistakes made on both sides of the fence that turned into something that may not be fixable anymore. Detroits problems would be much easier to correct if there wasn't such a stigma attached to the racial issue. is it better to be the muder capital or the segregation city? neither sound very appealing to me...

and as far as idiots go, if ANYONE deserves that title, I concede that it is the current Mayor.

[and the]

Yes, Dearborn was and is a great place to live, especially if your not black.

....which is why there are more blacks than ever moving into Dearborn, on both sides of town.....because the place is so racist....It must be those masochist blacks moving in.....I really don't think they're trying to be trail blazers....Just people who take care of their property, want to send their kids to decent schools, get their garbage picked up on time, be free from the number of armed robberies that Detroiters typically experience and live among others WHO WANT THE SAME THING. Which would be why there are now several traditionally black churches in Dearborn now. When was the last time you saw a big name, traditionally white church established in Detroit?

is it better to be the muder capital or the segregation city? neither sound very appealing to me...

Why should one have to choose? You could move to Detroit and live in a city that's both. Dearorn is extremely diverse and has very low crime compared to it's neighbor to the east. Will you be able to say either about Detroit in the next 40 years?

[simlifgal]

I am not sure what your point is. I am not denying that other cities have changed. The only reason I brought up hubbard in the first place is because at the time he only added fuel to an out of control fire. I am white, I grew up in Dearborn, went to school, and worked in dearborn most of my entire life. Through all my school years I had only one fellow student who was black. and while I did have many black co workers, not one of them lived in dearborn. this is not to say dearborn is a bad place to live, or that this is true of all dearborn. I believe you that dearborn is diversifying, and that the reasons for that are that there are people out there who want a decent life with a white picket fence or whatever. but none of this fixes the problems with detroit, and saying that the problem is that detroit is full of too many black people that hate white people doesnt sit well with me. My husband grew up in detroit. he did not have it easy. never once have i heard him discribe the old neighborhood in fond terms. but it wasnt bad because all the black people hated him. it was bad because they were poor and beaten down. it was bad because for the most part they felt abandoned by a government full of lies. it was bad because the drug problem was out of control and it was bad because no one was willing to offer or accept an olive branch. i just think the issues has been looked at as black and white for far to long. there are deeper issues, things that need to be addressed and given attention but the racial tension demands too much. I love detroit, I have so many memories downtown. I have been to the site where my grandparents house stood before the riots. I might be too young and maybe I sound ignorant, but it bothers me that we are still fighting the same things that tore the city apart to begin with. your right, to a large degree the suburbs have overcome, so why cant detroit. and dont just blame the mayor. change starts with the people. they elected him, twice! what makes detroit incapable of change on this aspect?

[STLCardsBlues1989]

From the stories I've heard it seems that Detroit was killed by a combination of things: loss of jobs, real estate issues, racial tension, and crime. The taxes may not help.