What Killed Detroit (Grand Rapids, Livonia, Wayne: wages, jobs, home)

[jumpygh]

Good points about the highway system. It opened up the suburbs and thus a lifestyle that many people prefer. Most of the families I know would much prefer to have a big house and big yard in the suburbs to living the central city. That would be the same regardless of the city. Suburban living is very popular everywhere in the country. Let's face it, Detroit at its peak was much more crowded that your average suburb. People like to have their space.

[TheProf]

^Lack of rail transit makes Olympics impossible for Detroit. Quality mass transit -- the abliity to move large masses of people throughout the region to the scattered stadia sites is a foundational issue for all potential sites. For that reason alone, no pol or chamber of commerce organization wouldn't even dare mention the city's name to the IOC.

[Kingsnkali]

Busing was the nail in the coffin for Detroit. Same with other big cities around the country. Stupid decision that generated sprawling suburbs and sucked the economic life out of the central cities. That, plus the welfare state that paid taxpayer money to the least productive people of society and increased their impact through high birth rates, while people in the productive middle class could no longer afford large families.

This is what you get through social tinkering. Detroit is a monument to the so-called "Great Society" welfare programs of the 60s.

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by TheProf

^Lack of rail transit makes Olympics impossible for Detroit. Quality mass transit -- the abliity to move large masses of people throughout the region to the scattered stadia sites is a foundational issue for all potential sites. For that reason alone, no pol or chamber of commerce organization wouldn't even dare mention the city's name to the IOC.

The peak population in Detroit was about 2 million, right? So now that there are about 900,000, there is a big need for mass transit? Do people have a hard time getting about via cars? Every time I go downtown, there is hardly any congestion.

So you want to build a subway system that nobody will ride? I just don't see people giving up the privacy and safety of their cars in order to ride mass transit with the often undesirable people who use such a system. The bus drivers recently went on strike to protest the lack of police officers patrolling their buses! I don't know about you, but I don't need a cop riding in my car in order to be safe. I think I'd pass on mass transit and stick to my car.

I took a bus to and from work for over a year when I had no car, and I would never EVER go back. I hated it and couldn't wait to get a car.

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by Kingsnkali

Busing was the nail in the coffin for Detroit. Same with other big cities around the country. Stupid decision that generated sprawling suburbs and sucked the economic life out of the central cities.

I think you're leaving out that people LIKE big yards in the suburbs. Watch any real estate show on HGTV, and you'll notice a lot of young people with families moving from the city to the suburbs in order to have a yard for their kids to play in.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by jumpygh

I think you're leaving out that people LIKE big yards in the suburbs. Watch any real estate show on HGTV, and you'll notice a lot of young people with families moving from the city to the suburbs in order to have a yard for their kids to play in.

You must be referring to House Hunters, at least in part. I have become addicted to this dang show! And lately they have shown at least 3 taking place in and around Detroit...one was an older one with a single mom moving to Detroit's eastside, one was a family moving from the east side to Grosse Pointe, and the other was a family moving from Dearborn Heights to Livonia.

[Kingsnkali]

I can see the appeal for a suburban size lot. However, many times the big decision to leave the city has much...much more to do with schools and safety.

I lived in Minneapolis in the 60's and early 70's. I could not imagine a better place growing up. Wonderful, safe neighborhoods with great neighborhood schools of high achievement.

Then forced busing came to the city. Overnight, everything changed. For sale signs and people running for the suburbs for "bigger lots". No, it wasn't the need for more room. It was the realization that our neighborhood schools and all the kids were now pawns on some social tinkerer's board game. Our way of life was over...

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by jumpygh

The peak population in Detroit was about 2 million, right? So now that there are about 900,000, there is a big need for mass transit? Do people have a hard time getting about via cars? Every time I go downtown, there is hardly any congestion.

So you want to build a subway system that nobody will ride? I just don't see people giving up the privacy and safety of their cars in order to ride mass transit with the often undesirable people who use such a system. The bus drivers recently went on strike to protest the lack of police officers patrolling their buses! I don't know about you, but I don't need a cop riding in my car in order to be safe. I think I'd pass on mass transit and stick to my car.

I took a bus to and from work for over a year when I had no car, and I would never EVER go back. I hated it and couldn't wait to get a car.

Well thanks to this local pervasive mentality like yours, jumpygh, Detroit will lock itself in to permanent 3rd World/2nd class status.

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

You must be referring to House Hunters, at least in part. I have become addicted to this dang show! And lately they have shown at least 3 taking place in and around Detroit...one was an older one with a single mom moving to Detroit's eastside, one was a family moving from the east side to Grosse Pointe, and the other was a family moving from Dearborn Heights to Livonia.

Yeah, also Designed to Sell. Lots of people with expanding families who want a big yard. It happens in super nice cities, not just Detroit.

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Well thanks to this local pervasive mentality like yours, jumpygh, Detroit will lock itself in to permanent 3rd World/2nd class status.

That's not very convincing, professor. You say we need mass transit. But why? There is no congestion problem. Who is going to want to ride it? If you want to have mass transit, you first have to convince people they need it. It's way, way too expensive to have a "if you build it they will come" mentality. You're talking about the upheaval and destruction of huge swaths of the city. And I just can't see the point. I really can't see where the money will come from.

New York absolutely has to have mass transit or the entire island of Manhattan would be gridlocked 24/7 (it practically is already). Detroit is much different. Just because Boston and New York have mass transit doesn't mean every city has to.