Moving from Berkeley, CA to Detroit (Ann Arbor, Royal Oak: foreclosures, showing, apartment)

[lolo341]

Hi Everybody. I'm grew up in Western Michigan and went to school at Wayne State. I've lived in Grosse Pointe and Ann Arbor before moving to Berkeley, California. I love it here, but it's too expensive After nine years in Cali, I've decided to return to the Detroit metro area because I have so many friends there. My old friends say things have changed. Well, I've changed too! I'm 44 now! I left Michigan when I was 32. I guess my rationale is that despite the bad economy, I'll be able to reinvent myself a little bit. I can work for less and get more out the bargain. But I'm worried about the social atmosphere. Here in Cali, I can walk to places, there's great public transportation, we've got farmer's markets with produce I don't remember seeing even frozen in Michigan let alone fresh... and I don't have to worry about being gay. We've got gorgeous parks and the ocean is minutes away, redwoods are minutes away in another direction. But like I said, the cost is too high. I'm paying $1,175 for a 350 sq. ft. studio with no yard. $175 of my rent is for my parking space and gas is nearly $4/gallon. I'm pretty sure I'm making the right decision but I'm nervous. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'd also like to get involved with community groups or local government, but everyone seems so hopeless in Detroit. Am I wrong about that?

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by lolo341

Hi Everybody. I'm grew up in Western Michigan and went to school at Wayne State. I've lived in Grosse Pointe and Ann Arbor before moving to Berkeley, California. I love it here, but it's too expensive After nine years in Cali, I've decided to return to the Detroit metro area because I have so many friends there. My old friends say things have changed. Well, I've changed too! I'm 44 now! I left Michigan when I was 32. I guess my rationale is that despite the bad economy, I'll be able to reinvent myself a little bit. I can work for less and get more out the bargain. But I'm worried about the social atmosphere. Here in Cali, I can walk to places, there's great public transportation, we've got farmer's markets with produce I don't remember seeing even frozen in Michigan let alone fresh... and I don't have to worry about being gay. We've got gorgeous parks and the ocean is minutes away, redwoods are minutes away in another direction. But like I said, the cost is too high. I'm paying $1,175 for a 350 sq. ft. studio with no yard. $175 of my rent is for my parking space and gas is nearly $4/gallon. I'm pretty sure I'm making the right decision but I'm nervous. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'd also like to get involved with community groups or local government, but everyone seems so hopeless in Detroit. Am I wrong about that?

Hi Lolo! I just moved to the Metro area 1 year ago this month from southern California. I am white, straight (but family friendly ), and fairly liberal politically. I tell you these things just to give you a barometer of where this opinion is coming from.

First of all, since you've lived here, you should know NOT to expect SF/Berkley. It's just not everything that Berkley is, and if it were it would be as expensive here as what you are currently paying! So you can't walk to as many great places as you can there, you can't rely on fabulous public transport like you can now...

But there are some great things. You mention parks, and I must tell you, with a few exceptions that are as good, but not better, Michigan parks have got California beat. In particular, the Detroit Metro has an extensive Metro Parks system that is very impressive, and this is in addition to the smaller parks, lakes and rivers found throughout the area. Besides all of this, there is the rest of the state to explore, which only gets more wild, untamed and beautiful the further north you go!

But perhaps like me you are a city person. I will assume you are looking for a liberal and accepting enviroment...

Ann Arbor is the top cultural and liberal mecca in Michigan, but a bit outside of the Detroit area. Within Metro Detroit, I think your best bet would be...

Fabulous, fashionable Ferndale. Ferndale is a focal point of the metro Detroit gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered communities and host of Motor City Pride. My wife and I love the downtown area (reminds us of a favorite haunt of ours in San Diego, the Hillcrest district), and some of the neighborhoods on Ferndale's northwest side rival any in the area, IMO. It's a quick drive from our adjacent town of...

Royal Oak! Also very "family friendly" but what we like about it is it's family friendly in both senses of the word, as we have kids! Like Ferndale it has a great downtown area and lots of neighborhoods within walking distance.

Since you don't have kids, you might want to consider doing what many urban pioneers are doing and check out downtown Detroit. Here is a great link showing this and other neighborhoods in the D.

Good luck!!!

[The Icy River Vagabond]

JEff, why do you call them urban pioneers??? I lived there for quite a while. Was I a pioneer??? I don't think so...... MAybe you should refer to them as suburbanites that think they are cool trying to live in the city for a couple of years....

[Cato the Elder]

Greetings all from sunny Crete!

Lolo, we moved from SF (Presidio/Lake area) to metro Detroit last summer and we haven't looked back. The cost of living was ridiculous as you mentioned (and we owned our house) and we knew it was only going to get worse. We were increasingly surrounded by googleaires so it was time to get out when we started our family. I'm an academic and I can relate similar stories from faculty at Stanford and Berkeley who are having to move further and further away from the Bay Area to raise a family or even just live.

As mentioned, AA would be a good choice. It's quite expensive now for metro Detroit, but it might still be cheap for you. It might also be a little too yuppified at this point for some people, so I would do some research. See for yourself whether the cost and character of the town are to your liking and go from there.

For something edgier, Ferndale is nice; it's come a long way and is continuing to get more vibrant. There was a gay community in northern Detroit years ago but they fled to places like Ferndale after what sounds like some untenable circumstances. I don't know the nitty-gritty, but I heard it somewhat secondhand from my wife's uncle who lived in said neighborhood but moved to Pleasant Ridge.

Royal Oak to us was the perfect mix of things. It has a nice farmer's market in downtown, and it fit our progressive lifestyle. Cultural amenities, including art galleries, are easy to get to from anywhere on the Woodward Ave. corridor.

So check out AA, Ferndale, and Royal Oak. I'm sure you'll find something in there.

[Jake1256]

downtown detroit, sounds good. alot of things going on.

[berrymist27]

Most definitely you should try looking either Downtown or Midtown its very hip and up and coming. I will give you a view of the area there are a lot of professionals and students living there. You are walking distance within the Culture District. If your into The Arts this is the place to be you have the....wait you use to leave in michigan. But to reintroduce you to they area we The RiverWalk behind the Ren Cen also now open the new Asian Village. A new YMCA and Campus Martius a beautiful park in the middle of Downtown. I don't want to reveal to much I want you to explore for yourself and see the change. Welcome Home!

[NYD_Central]

Lolo,

Check out the job prospects first of all. Detroit is affordable, but by California or New York City standards, so is Chicago. If you can get a good job in Detroit, go for it. But if you can't find a decent job, try a city close by like Chicago or Cleveland. You are always close by to visit. Am a pro-Detroit person, but I have friends in Detroit who recently left the city for Chicago so they could double their income, while only paying a small increase in living expenses. Though they are no longer in Detroit when I visit, I'm glad things have improved for them.

Only giving you advice that I would look at myself.

[Cherry]

Hi Lolo,

I'm from West Michigan too. I live in Hamtramck now and love it, mostly for the things that you are looking for. At least 4 DDOT bus lines pass through, Eastern Market is only 4 miles away, and I do most of my shopping on foot. There are several unbelievably cheap foreclosures in my neighborhood; I know of a 2-unit house with an accessory apartment in the garage that is available for $39,000.

Three years ago, I might have been concerned about social acceptance and opportunities for gay residents. Now, there is a new nightclub in town, Ice, that is easily one of the busiest places in town on the weekends, and people in the neighborhood have nothing but good things to say about it. I don't think you would have a hard time meeting people here.

Our local government is entirely independent of Detroit and there are lots of community groups and city commissions that you could join. Hamtramck really needs more residents like you who are interested in politics and volunteering.

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by NYD_Central

Check out the job prospects first of all. Detroit is affordable, but by California or New York City standards, so is Chicago. If you can get a good job in Detroit, go for it. But if you can't find a decent job, try a city close by like Chicago or Cleveland. You are always close by to visit. Am a pro-Detroit person, but I have friends in Detroit who recently left the city for Chicago so they could double their income, while only paying a small increase in living expenses. Though they are no longer in Detroit when I visit, I'm glad things have improved for them.

Yeah, by Hong Kong standards, Pac Heights or the Upper West Side are affordable, lol. I grew up in Chicago, went to college there, and most of my friends still live there (hundreds). I don't know of one person who makes double for a comparable job, assuming that it exists in Detroit. Yes, you go to Chicago for jobs, but not to double your salary. Not one of these friends can afford top buy a bona fide house in the area where we grew up and they are almost exclusively double-income professionals - $400k townhouses, yes, stand-alone houses, no. The house my parents bought for less than $150k in the 80s now sells for $600k+. Plus what particular motivation would someone have for choosing Cleveland over Detroit? To mention Cleveland in the same breath as Chicago is laughable at best. You're not "theProf" reincarnated, are you? Drinking your "Cleveland Rocks" Kool-aid?

[NYD_Central]

Oh no, not the Prof, though I respect his take on Cleveland. I've seen Cleveland past and present and was impressed with the gains they've made, so that's noteworthy. Mentioned them in the same breath because of their proximity to Detroit, both a couple of hours away. Also if you are comfortable in Detroit, you could be comfortable in either Cleveland or Chicago, as they are both mid-western cities, one slightly smaller, the other much larger. Well, that's my take from what I've seen of both cities.

In any case, my friend in Detroit was struggling in the academic field there doing odd jobs while trying to get his foot in the door, but a real job in teaching always eluded him. So maybe it was a bit disingenuous to use him as an example, but because he now has a full-time job there, his overall fortunes did dramatically change for the better. Also I was impressed that he could rent a place for around $700 somewhere in the north end. Don't have the exact location, but he is near mass transit. In the Detroit area he was renting a place for around $500. An almost negligible difference in my book. In NYC, anything near mass transit in a nice location is going to cost you at least $1,500, so yes, Chicago does seem inexpensive. $400k townhouses, $600k houses! As a New Yorker, all I can say is, I wish things were like that here. Ugh. Yeah, I friends who are native New Yorkers who grew up here in the city during the 60s and 70s, they look at their parents home going for $1.2 million and they say "WTF, it's only Queens!" My sentiments exactly. Meanwhile, in the Detroit area, the home I grew up I could practically buy with cash on-hand now. Crazy.