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Old 01-28-2011, 07:24 AM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
13,366 posts, read 11,871,000 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iron in the fire View Post
And, like in times past, there's this talk about revitalizing downtown/mid-town, but what about the greater area where most citizens actually live? What good is a "paradise" of a downtown and university center if the conditions of the more concentrated areas are dismal?
I'm glad to hear someone else say this (besides me). Unfortunately, the proposed solution for the non-downtown areas is to "close them off" (reference: Bing's Plan).

All this talk about downtown being the "heart" of the city...What good is putting a new heart into a body that's metastasizing with cancer?

So we're going to end up with a few square miles downtown where suburbanites (including those who are currently fleeing Detroit) can come to enjoy the cultural institutions, and 130+ square miles of wheat fields and Thomas Kinkade villages? Kind of like Cedar Point without the water...and only one roller coaster (the PM)!

Meanwhile, out in the suburbs, they aren't consumed by the next great civics engineering project. They are simply taking care of the things that are most important to the residents. Guess who will win (is winning)?
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:37 AM
 
530 posts, read 1,360,592 times
Reputation: 215
How Did A Stranger Move Into Empty House?

A local woman says a man moved into her empty house and started living there. The Defenders show you what happened when she called police.


How Did A Stranger Move Into Empty House? - Video - WDIV Detroit (http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/26644590/index.html - broken link)
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: north of Windsor, ON
1,903 posts, read 4,725,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ View Post
I think the diversification process is just commencing.

Browsing the other cities forums shows people at each others' throats there as well.

Where do you get this figure? What are the ten sq mile or so areas you're talking about? Why is this "meaningful turnaround" going to stop?
Which suburban areas?
1.A. I guesstimated the square mileages. Ten square miles (give or take a bit) would entail 48226 (downtown), parts of 48201 (New Center, WSU), parts of 48207 (East Jefferson east of downtown), part of 48214 (Indian and West Villages), "Mexicantown," and some other scattered areas around the city. Keep in mind there are still some rathole areas in all those aforementioned areas, but these areas are where the gentrification is taking place, or they never quite died like other parts of the city.

1.B. There are definitely other areas within the city that aren't quite so bad, but they're not considered, well, um, desirable places to be. Many of these areas are on the way down (some faster than others), much to my chagrin, as I like a lot of these areas...8/Kelly, Warrendale, EEV, the Detroit portion of 48236, et al. These areas are undesirable as places to live now because comparable suburban properties are so cheap now there's no point to living in the vast majority of Detroit unless you want to or have to, which brings me to...

2. Many suburban areas of the metro are hurting as well. Go to south Warren, Roseville, Eastpointe, Harper Woods and see houses that are selling for what they cost new 55 years ago (albeit in much worse shape). Go see houses in move in condition (or very close) selling for what they did twenty years ago. Park your Chrysler in the street and hope it doesn't get stolen. Just about the only thing separating some of these inner-ring areas from Detroit in terms of quality is code enforcement.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:41 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,551 posts, read 22,709,293 times
Reputation: 7625
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmax View Post
How Did A Stranger Move Into Empty House?

A local woman says a man moved into her empty house and started living there. The Defenders show you what happened when she called police.


How Did A Stranger Move Into Empty House? - Video - WDIV Detroit (http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/26644590/index.html - broken link)

There really is cheap housing options in the city!!
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,055 posts, read 3,700,060 times
Reputation: 646
[quote=Retroit;17615546]I'm glad to hear someone else say this (besides me). Unfortunately, the proposed solution for the non-downtown areas is to "close them off" (reference: Bing's Plan).

All this talk about downtown being the "heart" of the city...What good is putting a new heart into a body that's metastasizing with cancer?

So we're going to end up with a few square miles downtown where suburbanites (including those who are currently fleeing Detroit) can come to enjoy the cultural institutions, and 130+ square miles of wheat fields and Thomas Kinkade villages? Kind of like Cedar Point without the water...and only one roller coaster (the PM)!

Meanwhile, out in the suburbs, they aren't consumed by the next great civics engineering project. They are simply taking care of the things that are most important to the residents. Guess who will win (is winning)?[/quote]

Actually neither is winning. What suburban people need to understand is regardless of how long its been that the burbs could survive without the city it will eventually come to an end. Like I said in the other thread, you reap what you sow and the burbs will get back what they put out. enjoy it while you can suburban people, the signs are already showing
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Old 01-29-2011, 08:27 AM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
13,366 posts, read 11,871,000 times
Reputation: 15700
Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitlove
Actually neither is winning. What suburban people need to understand is regardless of how long its been that the burbs could survive without the city it will eventually come to an end. Like I said in the other thread, you reap what you sow and the burbs will get back what they put out. enjoy it while you can suburban people, the signs are already showing
Maybe you could be more specific? What are the suburbs "sowing"? What will they "reap"? What "signs" are showing?

From what I see, the suburbs have survived remarkably well despite what has/is happening in the city. Other than the housing crisis and the threat of foreign competition (which affect every city in America), they are holding up fairly well.
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,055 posts, read 3,700,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Maybe you could be more specific? What are the suburbs "sowing"? What will they "reap"? What "signs" are showing?

From what I see, the suburbs have survived remarkably well despite what has/is happening in the city. Other than the housing crisis and the threat of foreign competition (which affect every city in America), they are holding up fairly well.
um let's see a major reason Detroit is the way it is today is because of past events

secondly, last I checked MI is the only state as a whole that has been continuing to lose a lot of people, at its not just because of the recession. Many cities in the Metro area has declined like Warren, Roseville, Eastpointe, Southfield, Oak Park, many downriver, Redford, Hazel Park etc its not just the city and if anybody think that the rest will continue to be oh so great with the value of the homes going down which usually lead to lower class people moving in, you really need to open your eyes. Suburban people tend to have this little "we're so great and all of the city is terrible" attitude which will eventually blow up in you all face. So many of you actually want the city to fail without realizing that it will have a negative affect on the burbs as well
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:51 PM
 
8,662 posts, read 6,336,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitlove View Post
um let's see a major reason Detroit is the way it is today is because of past events

secondly, last I checked MI is the only state as a whole that has been continuing to lose a lot of people, at its not just because of the recession. Many cities in the Metro area has declined like Warren, Roseville, Eastpointe, Southfield, Oak Park, many downriver, Redford, Hazel Park etc its not just the city and if anybody think that the rest will continue to be oh so great with the value of the homes going down which usually lead to lower class people moving in, you really need to open your eyes. Suburban people tend to have this little "we're so great and all of the city is terrible" attitude which will eventually blow up in you all face. So many of you actually want the city to fail without realizing that it will have a negative affect on the burbs as well
Unless an alternative source of energy is found to replace or compliment petroleum, there will be a major urban planning paridgm shift. Our lifestlye and urban landscape scope and configuration was largely shaped by cheap plentiful oil and super highways. The era of sprawl has died with cheap gas. Cheap gas, cars and super highways allowed suburbs to grow while central cities stagnated or lost population. In order to conserve energy in an era of increasing energy cost, repopulating the urban core and depending more on mass transit will become the new paridgm.

Every urban center in America is going to grow in the next 20 years, as a more people move to the cities. Detroit is an aboslute steal. Detroit is like Ford Motor stock in 2008. There are few places were you can find cheapr housing and with the economy so depressed there are few places were you can find cheaper labor. If you are in the city of Detroit now.....I would not move out to the burbs. The people who prosper the most in this world are the ones AHEAD OF THE CURVE. The people who lose the most are the people who come in BEHIND THE CURVE. Moving to the burbs is BEHIND the curve. Moving to the city is being ahead of the curve. The key is that you have to know where in the city to stake your ground.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 01-30-2011 at 01:29 PM..
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
5,842 posts, read 6,914,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Unless an alternative source of energy is found to replace or compliment petroleum, there will be a major urban planning paridgm shift. Our lifestlye and urban landscape scope and configuration was largely shaped by cheap plentiful oil and super highways. The era of sprawl has died with cheap gas. Cheap gas, cars and super highways allowed suburbs to grow while central cities stagnated or lost population. In order to conserve energy in an era of increasing energy cost, repopulating the urban core and depending more on mass transit will become the new paridgm.

Every urban center in America is going to grow in the next 20 years, as a more people move to the cities. Detroit is an aboslute steal. Detroit is like Ford Motor stock in 2008. There are few places were you can find cheapr housing and with the economy so depressed there are few places were you can find cheaper labor. If you are in the city of Detroit now.....I would not move out to the burbs. The people who prosper the most in this world are the ones AHEAD OF THE CURVE. The people who lose the most are the people who come in BEHIND THE CURVE. Moving to the burbs is BEHIND the curve. Moving to the city is being ahead of the curve. The key is that you have to know where in the city to stake your ground.

IS I usually find myself in disagreement with you, but this time you make a good point. Urban cores all over the nation are redeveloping because of the rising fuel cost. It is also true that the millenial generation enjoys city life and rejects much of suburbia. It is definately possible that parts of Detroit could be revived. Your correct that Detroit is a steal, and the old houses in Detroit were built of the best quality for thier day, many of them are arcitectural gems. IF Detroit can get its problems at least under some semblence of control the city will benefit from the things you talk about. The inner ring suburbs will also benefit. If people feel safe in Detroit they are more likely to invest there.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Detroit - Ferndale - Playa del Carmen MX
70 posts, read 264,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forstarters View Post
i think older metro detroiters look at the city and become disenfranchised because they remember what detroit was and how far it has fallen. To them, detroit is like a kind of "paradise lost" that once was but never will be again. Those who have loved detroit and lost are very pessimistic about detroit's future. They believe that because they couldn't save the city, nobody can.

Outsiders don't have that institutional memory that leads to preconceived notions. They may even be attracted to the city's indelible grittiness. They don't share in our city-suburb animosity nor do they view the region as fragmented. To them there is no distinction between detroit and oakland county. It's all just "detroit."

outsiders and younger metro detroiters look at the city and see opportunity. We are aware of the city's history, it's reputation, and former glory, but we don't have that cynicism caused by detroit's fast rise and sharp fall. To newcomers, detroit is what it is. We tend to focus on the assets that are still intact and what can be built up around them. Outsiders bring fresh perspectives and ideas that have worked elsewhere and apply them where strategies have been stagnant.

To answer your quetion, i think many metro detoiters have been convinced that the city will continue its decline and they either want such perspective vindicated or are unable to suspend their disbelief long enough to see the positive progress that is already going on. They tend to write off new developments as minuscule or a waste. But, whether some people acknowledge it or not, detroit really is getting better by the day. Almost daily there is a new businesses locating in the city, a building being renovated, or some positive news story coming out of the city. If you tracked these occurrences on a line graph i think you'd see that they are steadily increasing in number as time goes on.

In any event, detroit is on the mends and will continue to improve despite the cynical outlook of many. Outsiders and younger metro detroiters are key to making that happen. However, if the older folks or those that have been burned by detroit in the past can find a way to put all that that behind them and work with us or even just root for us, it would combine the old with the new and we could build this city back as a team. How beautiful would that be?
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