!967 Detroit Riots, 40th Anniversary (Cadillac, Coleman: apartment complex, mortgage, loan)

[reconmark]

Originally Posted by and the

I don't know what you're talking about. Other than saying that the 1943 riot was a race riot, I didn't bring race into this at all, you did.

I merely stated that the 1967 riot was about taking the opportunity to STEAL things and not about race.



What lead to that incident was a hot summer night, lots of people on the street and a raid on a blind pig. After a few windows were smashed, it was every man for himself.



What facts am I being dismissive of? You may be able to rationalize burning down your own neighborhood because you're upset about brutal police and unemployment. I can't.

You seem to be attacking because time tells the real reasons that the 1967 riots took place.
The facts you seem to be dismissing are numerous such as, the police raiding a blind pig was the incident that lead to the riot. What lead to the riot in part was that people were being systematically excluded from education, housing, careers, and basic respect.
They faced a criminal justice system that was overly harsh and prejudicial, police that could shoot with impunity, and being over charged while living in the worse housing stock in the city.
All these things were in part that harbored the point where people took to the streets and did the things they did.
I have no doubts you could ever rationalize their behavior, what they were exposed to daily would not happen to you in a thousand years, do you deny that?
Riots were happening all over the country and I will tell you so that you can be clear on it, people did not riot to steal, people went on riots because they were fed up and frustrated with the system of descrimination in this country.
People have posted various sources that tell of declining jobs, housing already being abandoned, jobs and money going into the suburbs where redlineing and banks that refused mortgages to blacks outside the city, in essence creating a powder keg that finally exploded.
Do you realize that attituldes such as yours is what helped to create the atmosphere where the conditions of rebellion took place?

[reconmark]

Originally Posted by jumpygh

Are you saying that whites made "the existence of another group (blacks) unbearable"? If so, then by your logic only blacks should have been looting, but then you go on to imply that both blacks and whites looted. Isn't there a contradiction?

If whites were rioting, too, then it seems impossible to say this was a black response to white repression. It simply becomes incoherent at that point.

My logic never stated that only blacks should have been looting. Let's use common sense, we know that many people black and white looted. They looted because there will always be opportunists and a criminal element intermixed with those who were also expressing their frustrations.
But a question to you? do you believe that during that time that the lives of blacks were not being made unbearable?
Do you believe that blacks in the 40's,50's, and 60's had the same opportunities in society that you would have had.
Do you really believe that?

[and the]

They looted because there will always be opportunists and a criminal element intermixed with those who were also expressing their frustrations.

Anyone who picks up a brick and smashes a window, or takes a TV without paying for it is part of a "criminal element".

[Frankawitz]

I can see this is only going to start the race card again, I don't see how Detroit is ever going to get over the past, cause someone is always going to throw something into the mix to start the race issue why is it people can't see past a persons skin color and just act like a respected person, intil this race issue is dropped off the map nothing is going to change. Maybe in a 100 years from now Detroit may come back but the way it's being run now I don't see anything good happening. Sorry but with the state of the economy and the Governor with her TAX and SPEND we are going to see more people leaving for jobs in other States. I'm looking at houses out west cause I fear another winter with no work, I will loss everything I have worked for go down the drain.

[reconmark]

Originally Posted by Frankawitz

I can see this is only going to start the race card again, I don't see how Detroit is ever going to get over the past, cause someone is always going to throw something into the mix to start the race issue why is it people can't see past a persons skin color and just act like a respected person, intil this race issue is dropped off the map nothing is going to change. Maybe in a 100 years from now Detroit may come back but the way it's being run now I don't see anything good happening. Sorry but with the state of the economy and the Governor with her TAX and SPEND we are going to see more people leaving for jobs in other States. I'm looking at houses out west cause I fear another winter with no work, I will loss everything I have worked for go down the drain.

I have to agree with you.
I thought we could look at the issue in terms other than trying to place the fault on one particular thing and start a dialogue of the real issues and events that precipitated this issue.
Maybe se mi will never get over this issue untill all who experienced it or lived through it are dead, or looks at the issue truthfully.

[jeffncandace]

Everyone is doing okay so far, but since this is a HOT TOPIC, and emotions get going, I am just reminding everyone to keep it above the belt.

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by reconmark

But a question to you? do you believe that during that time that the lives of blacks were not being made unbearable?
Do you believe that blacks in the 40's,50's, and 60's had the same opportunities in society that you would have had.
Do you really believe that?

No, blacks were not treated equally during that time. I think that's obvious, and you won't find anyone disputing it. Like you said, how about some common sense? I just don't believe that is why a riot occurred. I think it was just an opportunity for some bad people to break the law. Good people don't loot stores and set buildings on fire, let alone murder others--no matter what the circumstances are. The vast majority of whites and blacks did NOT commit crimes during the riots. You sound like you're excusing or rationalizing that kind of behavior.

I guess nothing has changed since the 1960s. Blacks are still oppressed, as evidenced by the steady string of riots in black areas. LA in the 1990s is the obvious big one. But even here in the midwest we've had two black riots in the last six years!

Cincinnati riot

Benton Harbor riot

[elmoslg]

Originally Posted by reconmark

Not to state your opinion for you, are you saying that the numbers, facts, and figures are incorrect, false, or revisionist because they dispute the notion of the "only because of black people" mantra.
Do you say that this area was a utopia for ALL citizens both black and white, and the blacks just went berserk for no reason.
I understand that the area may have been utopia for some, but I believe no society has real peace or harmony when one group makes the existence
of another group unbearable.
Do you dispute that black and white looted?
What do you believe lead to the incident and what of the areas of the city that were already is disrepair.
You seem to be pretty dismissive of any facts that dispute the story that has circulated foe decades, the one that simply says blacks moved in started a riot and destroyed everything. No other issues or trends contributed to their actions or the actions of whites.
Again, if all you can do is post derogative comments, please don't post them.
(Not to you personally, but to anyone that replies.)

well it seems that nothing can be discussed on here without it coming down to race. andthe never once mentioned race in anyway at all. never once mentioned the color of any one persons skin. never disputed that all kinds of people looted.
why are you so defensive? from what i have read about the 67 riots, it can only be speculated that the raid on the blind pig (as i understand is illegal anyway) is what started it. there are several dissenting opinions on what actually sparked the riot at large.
i think you should take a little advice form yourself - "Again, if all you can do is post derogative comments, please don't post them". you are being awfully negative. How did the riots affect you as a person? Were you directly involved in some way? I ask you in all seriousness.
Many people left Detroit after the riots, not all were white. I had a teacher of African descent that left in the middle of it all.
I know tons of families that left Ferndale after so many same sex household moved in. Can we have a discussion about the "Straight Flight"?

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by elmoslg

well it seems that nothing can be discussed on here without it coming down to race.

How can you discuss the riot with discussing race? It is central to understanding the riot and fallout in the intervening years. You won't find a written account about the riot that doesn't mention race prominently.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by elmoslg

I know tons of families that left Ferndale after so many same sex household moved in. Can we have a discussion about the "Straight Flight"?

LOL! Str8 Flight!