Arab Neighborhoods in Dearborn (Warren: middle-class, how much, school)

[Tammy222]

Oh my! The hostility!!!!
I surely did not mean to offend anyone. This area went from a desolate wasteland to a thriving community because of the middle eastern influence here. God bless them for that!!!!
However, the things I don't like are that a driver's license may be obtained by those who cannot even read the minimal amount of English, that there is a separate line/sign in sheet at the welfare office for the Arabic speaking people, that my son cannot wear an all-American baseball cap to school but females are covered head-to-toe!-which, by the way, was NOT ALLOWED when I went to Fordson oh so many years ago.
Speaking of that, what area in Dearborn did you live in? What high school here did you graduate from????? Yeah, I guess not.... Fordson.
I am moving-out-of-state! Not because of an ethnic group but because I hate winter & am appalled at, in the whole metro Detroit area, the general rudeness, lack of common courtesy, respect & manners that I was brought up with.
I didn't say there were a noticeable number of anything anywhere. You make a lot of assumptions & misquotes! Oh, & if a Chaldean is married to a Lebanese, do they no longer count as a Chaldean? That was confusing???
good luck!

[and the]

However, the things I don't like are that a driver's license may be obtained by those who cannot even read the minimal amount of English, that there is a separate line/sign in sheet at the welfare office for the Arabic speaking people, that my son cannot wear an all-American baseball cap to school but females are covered head-to-toe!-which, by the way, was NOT ALLOWED when I went to Fordson oh so many years ago.

I'm still waiting to hear which state laws were changed. Exactly when was there a requirement to speak English to obtain a driver license? The test has been given in languages other than English long before the Arabs started moving in. The test only requires one to understand basic things like internationally recognizeable road signs, speed limits, traffic signals, etc.

I went to high school in Dearborn at a school other than Fordson. As far as Chaldeans go, there are very, very few living in Dearborn. When I said "There aren't any Chaldeans in Dearborn", I didn't mean it literally. In fact, there are probably more African Americans living in Dearborn than Chaldeans.

If your son can't wear a baseball hat in school, and that's important to you, either send him to a different school or develop your own religion that requires boys to wear baseball hats.

[gemkeeper]

I am sorry to see so much hostility building up in the Detroit metro area because of the Middle Eastern population in Dearborn. I could sense a degree of it a decade ago when I lived in the area, but it seems to be snowballing.

It seems to me that this immigration of so many displaced Middle Easterners and those just seeking a better way of life has given a new vitality to the Dearborn area.

Could the rudeness and isolationism that you are getting from shopkeepers and neighbors be a result of some of this resentment and hostility?

Secondly, any foreign-speaking group of immigrants anywhere in the world will seek out a community of others that they relate to, feel comfortable with and share common religious beliefs and customs with. Not out of line.

In Europe, Asia, South America, Africa, et.al. Americans and other English speaking groups form their own private schools for their children because they do not speak the native tongue. They tend to live in English speaking neighborhoods so they feel that they belong to a group. Chickens and geese are both birds you might find on the same farm, but they do not live together, they do not eat together, etc. But, they also don't usually attack one another. Why should we expect anything different from people?

The Amish and Mennonites live in their own isolated communities and employ, most generally, their own children and community members in their businesses. Do we complain or criticize them for it? Usually their closeness and dedication to their way of life is commended - not condemned.

Tolerance, people. Have your opinion, but think before forming it.

[Tammy222]

Sorry, I missed the memo that said that our public schools were supposed to change their rules for a specific religion!??? And, as i guessed you've NEVER lived in East Dearborn! I was born & raised here-two different worlds. That's like living in Warrendale in Detroit & claiming to know what it's like to live in Southwest Detroit. Get real!

You are so right, gemthornton, tolerance! I was forgetting my manners. I will bow out gracefully by saying none of this had anything to do with the subject-and I apologize for responding in any way that seems hostile. As I said previously, my gripe is with our government & authorities & not an ethnic group. Your analogy with chickens & geese was quite interesting. Thanks for putting all the fussing in perspective.

[gemkeeper]

No problem, Tammy222. As I read through the thread it looked like it was just a few people who read something in your post that simply was not there. I know that you were not implying that any group was an issue in the area. I think that one responder's comment twisted the entire thread & got it all rolling downhill.

Can't wait to get back up to MI and visit some of the restaurants myself on Michigan Ave!

[virgokid1]

Just want to add to this fine thread, that I have known arabs in Dearborn for many years now, and I find them to be very hospitable and yet VERY ANGRY people. They just are an angry people. I mean they're very nice on the one hand, offering you platefuls of tasty barbecue to your family, but don't ever cross them. Some of them have a bad temper. I guess people of all races can have tempers though.. I live in peace with them, but prefer to live in an area that is more diverse and EDUCATED (read Ann Arbor). I am patient with them because I realize that many of them are refugees who came here from wartorn countries and are used to a very hard life that many of us have never experienced. But it would be nice if they could go through some kind of training to make them more civilized and respectful of others, before they attain residency/citizenship. Anyway, the polite thing to do, rather than look down on them, would be to realize where they're coming from, what kind of resources they've never had available to them, and the lack of education that many of them represent. As a native-born American who understands the value of things like paying attention to laws and rules of this country, I think that it's important to politely but firmly teach them that same message as well. Within a few generations, they'll hopefully be totally adjusted to our way of life. And no offense to any Arabic people on here. Just teach your kids how to listen to rules and stop playing in the damn street. This isn't Beirut.

[and the]

Sorry, I missed the memo that said that our public schools were supposed to change their rules for a specific religion!???

STILLL waiting to hear which state laws were changed for Arabs and/or Muslims. When you can show me Fordson's dress code in Michigan Compiled Laws, let me know.

As far as educated: I always thought the Arab families in Dearborn put a higher emphasis on education than most groups you care to point out in the area. And as far as money, recent Iraqi immigrants notwithstanding, I believe many of the Lebanese who came here during the civil war brought a lot of money with them. Not to mention professional skills in medicine, education, etc.

I think that it's important to politely but firmly teach them that same message as well. Within a few generations, they'll hopefully be totally adjusted to our way of life. And no offense to any Arabic people on here. Just teach your kids how to listen to rules and stop playing in the damn street. This isn't Beirut.

It's interesting listening to what people complain about these days when longing for the way things were. You mention kids playing in the street. When I was a kid, I remember playing with lots of other kids in the street all day long. When a car came, someone yelled "car" and we got out of the street. The Arab "invasion" didn't start in earnest for another 5 or 10 years.

Another complaint I hear all the time is about people hanging out until late at night on their porches with TV's on, radios, etc, sitting in chairs in the driveways and sidewalks until late at night. I can remember people doing the same thing when I was a kid when we went to visit my grandparents in the southwest Detroit neighborhood where my mother grew up. And there wasn't an Arab in sight. Mostly Polish and Italian and there weren't any driveways.
You could look down the porches that were perfectly lined up, down the whole block, and almost every house had a TV or radio going on the porch and people hanging out watching the game or listening to Ernie Harwell. And many were drinking and having a good time, loudly. And that was in the 60's and 70's and I'm sure it was like that before then.

[gemkeeper]

Hear, hear, "and the"!

[virgokid1]

s interesting listening to what people complain about these days when longing for the way things were. You mention kids playing in the street. When I was a kid, I remember playing with lots of other kids in the street all day long. When a car came, someone yelled "car" and we got out of the street. The Arab "invasion" didn't start in earnest for another 5 or 10 years.

Yeah you're right, I remember watching shows like Dennis the Menace and others from the 50s era and there were all kids playing in the streets back then. It's just that in some places that are very "lily white" you don't see too much interaction between families in the neighborhoods. If it happens, it's very very seldom. Lily white neighborhoods are typically super quiet with one guy spraying his grass to make it the greenest on the block. On the other hand, lily white neighborhoods don't seem like a refugee camp. Although I will say that these arab neighborhoods always appear to be full of life. No offense to refugees of course, I have good friends who are of arabic descent and they're not refugees. And I'm not just saying that to not sound racist. If there were Chinese in my neighborhood who drove me crazy, I would certainly talk about it too. I think everyone needs to be more tolerant, but also foreigners to America definitely need to try much harder to fit in. Fitting in means you accept the culture around you, don't have to follow it exactly, but get to know it, and try to be as neighborly as possible. It's all common sense stuff really.

[malice40]

I have owned and lived in a house in East Dearborn for the last three years. I also own a house in downtown Royal Oak where I also have lived, and I must say that although my Royal Oak neighborhood is quiet and tree-lined and filled with smiling, upwardly mobile couples walking their dogs on warm summer nights, my East Dearborn neighborhood is FUN.

There are always little kids out on their bikes or playing in their yards. There are always ladies, some veiled head to toe, sitting on their front porches drinking tea and chatting.

Up the street, on Warren Avenue and within walking distance, are purveyors of fruits and vegetables, meat and poultry, coffee, candy and really yummy baked goods.

Everything is close, handy, and friendly. Even my neighbors who don't speak any English send over home cooked meals and treats from time to time.

I am a blond "wasp" whose ancestors go back to seventeenth century New York, but I feel really at home and accepted by my neighbors who are so different from me in background and education level.

My neighborhood is very safe because of the number of small children who live there and the number eyes overseeing their play. Even after dark, the murmur of voices can be heard up and down the block from each front porch where people actually sit and talk to each other. I don't know of a single family (on my street) at least that has a TV or a radio playing after hours.

Someone said that the Arabs he/she has met seem angry. I agree that they seem a bit brusque by upper class American standards of polite verbal exchange. Actually I think that they are afraid; afraid that they won't be liked or understood; afraid that their presence in the United States will be answered with violence because of a few of their misguided brethren who have done such awful things in the name of Allah. Many of them fly American flags every day to show that they are good American citizens who want the same things that members of any other group want: prosperity, good health, and a future for their children.

I am not an apologist for Arab culture. I am sure that East Dearborn has its share of reprobates and ne'er-do-wells, but in general it has people who have never made me feel uncomfortable or unwanted. And if you are on a diet or have a heart condition, their food is absolutely the best.