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Old 06-21-2011, 04:12 AM
 
72 posts, read 125,379 times
Reputation: 57

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Conflict is good. It promotes change. I did my part to change the bad about the city and maintain the good. I bought properties in the city, maintained them and paid disproportionately high taxes than the people making the real money in the city. It didn't work or it was too little to stem the tide of corruption and decay and the continuation of a hare-brained social experiment gone terribly awry.

But regardless, you don't have to be doing anything "positive" by your definition to have the right to complain about Detroit. In fact, those who hold the mirror up to the people who have their heads in the sand about what Detroit was, is and is becoming are just as much a force for positive change as those who plant tomatoes in vacant industrial lots or paint polka dots on abandoned houses. Actually, they're probably more of a positive influence for change.

Remember, Detroit is the product of liberal socialist philosophy and politics. It won't get better until the entitlement/dependency attitude changes. I'm doing my part to change it. What exactly are you doing besides leading cheers for a system that failed before it started?

PS: A famous Detroiter told other Detroiters who didn't like what he was all about to "Just move". So they did. You see the end result.

 
Old 06-21-2011, 06:41 AM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
13,387 posts, read 11,879,321 times
Reputation: 15721
I think too much is made of whether or not a person has to live somewhere to comment about it. When you travel somewhere, do you form an opinion on the place or do you remain entirely neutral?
 
Old 06-21-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,718 posts, read 59,615,271 times
Reputation: 26823
Retroit :

I can agree with you in part It is not necessarily to live somewhere to know it well. However what is annoying is the persons who know nothing about the City yet spew all kinds of absurd generalizations based on rumors or simply made up stories or fact that they think sound nice and dramatic (many have not even been here or only drive trough it a couple of times a year). Even many people who live in Detroit do not really know it. If you are not a get out and do things type, you will never get to know any place except your living room or your back yard.

Others:
On the other side of the coin, my brother tried for years to make a difference and help Detroit. He worked for one non-profit after another, taking pathetic pay and volunteering extra hours because he believed in Detroit and wanted to make a difference for the people here. He slowly became discouraged and finally gave up entirely. This was primarily for two reasons. One, he discovered that the people of Detroit do not want help from people that they consider outsiders (mostly meaning white people, but also including black people who are perceived as outsiders). Two, the non-profits are almost paralyzed by stupidity. Many of them do nothing but plan and plan and then make a new plan. Some of them are run by incompetent people with no qualificaiton for their position other than having the required ancestory, and/or family relationships (i.e. being someone's uncle or cousin or sister). Some places would spend weeks choosing a computer system and developing a program and then never get anything done, becuase they could not process the request for some needed component, or they would fight endlessly over where to buy the pencils (usually because someone wanted to buy them through a friend or relative). He finally gave up and after about years of dedicating his life to various non profit causes aimed at helping Detroit, he wants little to do with the whole thing. He still works with charties to help homeless or underprivileged people, but he has given up on the idea of getting Detroit on the right path. His perception is that Detroit does not want to be on the right path, especially if they have to accept help from "outsiders" to get there.

One last straw for many non-profits came a few years ago when the City refused to process grant renewal requests for something like $50 million in Federal grants for various non-profits unless those non-profits had at least 50% black board members. Some non-profits went to black community leaders and asked them to be on their all volunteer boards and were told that they needed to pay $20,000 a year if they wanted a Black community leader on their board. Even though this requirement was eventually changed and some of the grants were processed, quite a few volunteers who wanted to help Detroit gave up and either began working outside the city or just gave up altogether.

I do not think Detroit is hopeless, but I certainly understand the frustration and why many people give up. However it is not valid to assume that if someone is not currently involved in the efforts that you are currently involved in, that they do not care or that they never made an effort. It may well be that they tried exactly what you are trying with the same spirit and gumption that you now feel, but they eventually gave up in frustration. They may not be less caring and charged up than you, they might just be ahead of you in the process. Probably good to avoid condemniing such people in case you eventually become one of them.
 
Old 06-21-2011, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Shakedown Street
1,451 posts, read 2,491,318 times
Reputation: 1184
I have volunteered with Deloitte numerous times on their Impact Day to beautify various neighborhoods, playgrounds, etc.
For one project we planted a lot of trees throughout some of the parks and common areas in the neighborhoods. About 2 weeks later we heard most of them were dug up and stolen.

People try to help Detroit, but some Detroiters spoil it for the people that truly care for the city.

I have also delivered meals to the 'needy' through my church only to find out once I was inside their home that they had a nicer living room set and larger TV than I did!

Now I just volunteer for the elderly. Only.

PS - I was born at Sinai hospital and have worked downtown for over 12 years before I was, as Jennifer Granholm would put it, 'blown away' to a new state.

Last edited by rdub1968; 06-21-2011 at 12:40 PM.. Reason: added info
 
Old 06-21-2011, 01:11 PM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
13,387 posts, read 11,879,321 times
Reputation: 15721
This raises the question: Do the people of Detroit even want to be helped?...and, if so, how?

...or are they content with the way things are and prefer that they not be "messed with"?

If Detroiters are not happy with their city, why aren't they helping each other? To suggest that they need some outside help implies that they are genetically inferior in some way. Or at least that is what Indentured Servant taught me.
 
Old 06-21-2011, 03:42 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,560 posts, read 22,728,017 times
Reputation: 7625
We love Detroit. It is one of the greatest cities in America. Now if you are talking government and politicians....they are responsible for the current condition of the city. They have allowed the city to decline into a deep dark abyss.
We loved living in the city--with the exception of outrageous TAXES, red line auto insurance rates, no shopping, and no services. Also having 1 inch glass between you and the cashier in most business was very upsetting as well.

Other than that, it is a great city. Some great architecture, history (is Fort Wayne still open?), love spending the afternoon at Woodmere Cemetary in the fall. And there is no place like Baker's on Livernois.

Just as the problems have continued in Detroit since the late 1960s and nothing has changed, so too has this very question been asked numerous times with the same answers being given. Just like Detroit politicians, NO ONE wants to hear the truth.
 
Old 06-21-2011, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,055 posts, read 3,701,222 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdub1968 View Post
I have volunteered with Deloitte numerous times on their Impact Day to beautify various neighborhoods, playgrounds, etc.
For one project we planted a lot of trees throughout some of the parks and common areas in the neighborhoods. About 2 weeks later we heard most of them were dug up and stolen.

People try to help Detroit, but some Detroiters spoil it for the people that truly care for the city.

I have also delivered meals to the 'needy' through my church only to find out once I was inside their home that they had a nicer living room set and larger TV than I did!

Now I just volunteer for the elderly. Only.

PS - I was born at Sinai hospital and have worked downtown for over 12 years before I was, as Jennifer Granholm would put it, 'blown away' to a new state.
and you had to call it Deloitte for what reason? smh
 
Old 06-21-2011, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,055 posts, read 3,701,222 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Retroit :

I can agree with you in part It is not necessarily to live somewhere to know it well. However what is annoying is the persons who know nothing about the City yet spew all kinds of absurd generalizations based on rumors or simply made up stories or fact that they think sound nice and dramatic (many have not even been here or only drive trough it a couple of times a year). Even many people who live in Detroit do not really know it. If you are not a get out and do things type, you will never get to know any place except your living room or your back yard.

Others:
On the other side of the coin, my brother tried for years to make a difference and help Detroit. He worked for one non-profit after another, taking pathetic pay and volunteering extra hours because he believed in Detroit and wanted to make a difference for the people here. He slowly became discouraged and finally gave up entirely. This was primarily for two reasons. One, he discovered that the people of Detroit do not want help from people that they consider outsiders (mostly meaning white people, but also including black people who are perceived as outsiders). Two, the non-profits are almost paralyzed by stupidity. Many of them do nothing but plan and plan and then make a new plan. Some of them are run by incompetent people with no qualificaiton for their position other than having the required ancestory, and/or family relationships (i.e. being someone's uncle or cousin or sister). Some places would spend weeks choosing a computer system and developing a program and then never get anything done, becuase they could not process the request for some needed component, or they would fight endlessly over where to buy the pencils (usually because someone wanted to buy them through a friend or relative). He finally gave up and after about years of dedicating his life to various non profit causes aimed at helping Detroit, he wants little to do with the whole thing. He still works with charties to help homeless or underprivileged people, but he has given up on the idea of getting Detroit on the right path. His perception is that Detroit does not want to be on the right path, especially if they have to accept help from "outsiders" to get there.

One last straw for many non-profits came a few years ago when the City refused to process grant renewal requests for something like $50 million in Federal grants for various non-profits unless those non-profits had at least 50% black board members. Some non-profits went to black community leaders and asked them to be on their all volunteer boards and were told that they needed to pay $20,000 a year if they wanted a Black community leader on their board.Even though this requirement was eventually changed and some of the grants were processed, quite a few volunteers who wanted to help Detroit gave up and either began working outside the city or just gave up altogether.

I do not think Detroit is hopeless, but I certainly understand the frustration and why many people give up. However it is not valid to assume that if someone is not currently involved in the efforts that you are currently involved in, that they do not care or that they never made an effort. It may well be that they tried exactly what you are trying with the same spirit and gumption that you now feel, but they eventually gave up in frustration. They may not be less caring and charged up than you, they might just be ahead of you in the process. Probably good to avoid condemniing such people in case you eventually become one of them.
ha, like any of these bashers on C-D truly have attempted to help the city. I'll believe when I see it. You're brothers experience was unfortunate. But did he ever think he was apart of the wrong organizations? or just dealt with the wrong people? all I see on this site is people generalizing Detroiters left and right. Maybe some you should start to see us as INDIVIDUALS not just "black Detroiters". Honestly, I can see how Detroiters don't want the "help" from suburbanites, any thread on C-D alone will give you reasons why
 
Old 06-21-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,055 posts, read 3,701,222 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Belle Grande View Post
Conflict is good. It promotes change. I did my part to change the bad about the city and maintain the good. I bought properties in the city, maintained them and paid disproportionately high taxes than the people making the real money in the city. It didn't work or it was too little to stem the tide of corruption and decay and the continuation of a hare-brained social experiment gone terribly awry.

But regardless, you don't have to be doing anything "positive" by your definition to have the right to complain about Detroit. In fact, those who hold the mirror up to the people who have their heads in the sand about what Detroit was, is and is becoming are just as much a force for positive change as those who plant tomatoes in vacant industrial lots or paint polka dots on abandoned houses. Actually, they're probably more of a positive influence for change.

Remember, Detroit is the product of liberal socialist philosophy and politics. It won't get better until the entitlement/dependency attitude changes. I'm doing my part to change it. What exactly are you doing besides leading cheers for a system that failed before it started?

PS: A famous Detroiter told other Detroiters who didn't like what he was all about to "Just move". So they did. You see the end result.
actually it is mighty stupid of anyone to complain about something when they aren't doing anything about it. Especially when you don't live in the city you bash so damn much
 
Old 06-21-2011, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
2,055 posts, read 3,701,222 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
We love Detroit. It is one of the greatest cities in America. Now if you are talking government and politicians....they are responsible for the current condition of the city. They have allowed the city to decline into a deep dark abyss.
We loved living in the city--with the exception of outrageous TAXES, red line auto insurance rates, no shopping, and no services. Also having 1 inch glass between you and the cashier in most business was very upsetting as well.

Other than that, it is a great city. Some great architecture, history (is Fort Wayne still open?), love spending the afternoon at Woodmere Cemetary in the fall. And there is no place like Baker's on Livernois.

Just as the problems have continued in Detroit since the late 1960s and nothing has changed, so too has this very question been asked numerous times with the same answers being given. Just like Detroit politicians, NO ONE wants to hear the truth.
I see what you are saying but lets be honest the people of this WHOLE region, city and suburbs, are the cause of the things you named
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