Michigan to Curb Welfare Benefits (Detroit, Flint: section 8, rent, insurance)

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by canudigit

And is it selfish to expect your fellow man to slog off to work in all kinds of weather and five days a week or more to earn money to have a big chunk of it siphoned off to support you so that you can lie around, wear gold jewelry, get your nails done, and manage to afford booze and cigarettes with no job?

Let's face it, the majority of people on welfare are leeches, they just are. Not ALL of them, but the ones who drop out of high school when they know that they will likely never get a job without a diploma but just don't care because Big Daddy Government will support them. Granted, many of them are born into it and it becomes the only way of life that they have ever known, but then you have to ask yourself why we have a system where generation after generation can depend on the taxpaying citizens to pay for them to do nothing.

My father-in-law used to own several units of rental property in a white welfare neighborhood in Toledo. I mention that it was a white neighborhood lest I be labeled a racist here. I have seen first hand just how people work the system so that they don't have to do anything but lie around, do drugs, walk down to the corner store and pay three prices for a 20 oz. bottle of pop and a pack of cigarettes, and eat junk food. Oh, and of course have baby after baby that they can't afford and have little interest in raising to be responsible citizens. It ain't pretty, but it's a fact. These are the people who are leeches, and yeah, they need to be kicked off of the dole. If they then decide that they want to do something with their lives, there are all kinds of programs out there where low income people can get their GED and attend college for free. In fact, I would argue that it is easier for someone living in poverty to afford college than your average kid of working parents who has to depend on student loans and working to get through college. To say that people don't have opportunities in this country and this day and age is bs, and I know that you know it. Last I checked, public education through the 12th grade is free...IF you actually show up and attend classes. Heck, kids can even get three square meals a day at school now. The legitimate excuses not to at least finish high school are few these days.

If you are so bent on seeing lazy people live off of the backs of those who make an effort, then would you at least agree that they should be put to work doing something? Pulling weeds or picking up trash along public roadways, etc.? If not, what is your reasoning, if I may ask?

I don't disagree with your last paragraph and I would be in complete favor of it. But why aren't our legislators doing that?

I will say this, Taking away these benefits in the middle of the worst depressions in history won't make the situation any better either, you're just creating more criminals, or POTENTIAL criminals that will strain the budgets anyway as municipalities will have to beef up policing.

Like I said, if our legislators can guarantee that these people will have a decent chance at finding a good paying job when they're thrown off welfare then I'm all for it. Otherwise they can shove it. Also, last I checked, most good paying jobs require a certificate or degree (more than a 12th grade education) that requires you go into thousands of dollars in debt. How in the world can a person on welfare afford that, especially when there's a good chacne they won't even get a good return on their investment (that is a good paying job to pay off the debt)? They are generally right to think they won't get a job, the deck is stacked against them in every way possible. On Sunday, this guy on Frankie Darcell's show (yes, a Republican naturally) said he knew of some businesses hiring on 23 Mile and Van Dyke (minimum wage jobs). Great!!! Now how are all of those "welfare queens" who largely live way down in Detroit supposed to get all the way to 23 Mile and Van Dyke for those minimum wage jobs that require years of industry-specific experience?

[fmax]

Add it up.

Are the targeted people likely to setup caravans and leave for better welfare in other states or, will the targeted people camp-out in the lawless areas of the city Bing has shuttered?

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

Do you guys have proof that the vast majority of people on Welfare in Michigan are leeches?

I wasn't talking about the ones who legitimatly need it, I am talking about the ones who have made it a family business to live off the working people.

And wow, what selfish little opinions about your fellow man.

You don't know my opinions of my fellow man. I am saying cut out the deadwood and let them either rise to the occasion, or move someplace that doesn't mind spending tens of thousands of dollars supporting their lazy asses.

I thought we were living in the COMMONWEALTH of Michigan and the UNITED states of America?

Don't know where you are living, but the State of Michigan is NOT a Commonwealth. There are only 4 states in the US that are commonwealths (VA, MA, PA, & KY)

We live in the STATE of Michigan which is part of the United States.

[SyraBrian]

There are going to be long lines at the offices of the disability lawyers who advertise during mid-day tv.

[Retroit]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

Ok, I'll bite with this plan.

So what plan does our far right state have to create good paying jobs for the folks who will be thrown off Welfare? And what plan does the far left have to create good paying jobs for the folks who will NOT be thrown off welfare? The War on Poverty was lost a long time ago, yet the "far left" wants to keep it perpetuated despite no positive results achieved thus far.

So what plan does our far right state have to make sure trade school/college is easily accessible and affordable for the folks who wil be thrown off Welfare? The reason that college is so expensive is that it is subsidized by the government. Anything the government subsidizes becomes more expensive: health care (via Medicare/aid), military, agriculture, education, etc. When the government subsidizes an industry, that industry raises the prices.

So what plan does our far right state have to feed the thousands of helpless children who will be impacted by this? Well, the far left wants to continue allowing illegal immigrants into this country to work on the farms because Americans don't want to pick their own damn fruits and vegetables.

So what plan does our far right state have to enforce those "When they have nothing to lose they lose it" citizens when they're thrown off Welfare? So people can't be expected to do anything for themselves without the government holding their hand? Is that what it America is all about? Why do we need a government "plan" for everything in the first place. Would we be able to survive as a species if we did not expect the government to "plan" out every single aspect of our lives? I'm in favor of a program as I described above which has accountability and active participation requirements for receiving aid. And I support aid to the disabled. But for people to expect the government to solve all our problems with "plans" reveals a profound misunderstanding of the role and the capabilities of government.

Really, it's almost as if people in this state want to continue to lose people.

That's what HAS TO happen in areas that are declining economically. Otherwise poverty becomes more widespread. Look at the millions of Europeans that fled to America after wars and famines. They helped build the U.S. and at the same time relieved population pressure in Europe. Conversely, look at poor countries in Africa: the people are unable to leave, so the pressures of over/high population are perpetuated.

People leaving Michigan/Detroit will be of benefit for those who stay. More importantly, it will benefit those that leave for better opportunity elsewhere. I've said it before: as more and more manufacturing is transfered from the U.S. to Asia, more and more Americans will and should emigrate there to take advantage of the opportunities that Asia has to offer.

[fmax]

"Now how are all of those... who largely live way down in Detroit supposed to get all the way to 23 Mile and Van Dyke"

Subsidized SMART Buses. See map:

[SIZE=2] System Map
[/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Launch the system map to view routes by geographic location[/SIZE]



http://www.smartbus.org/Smart/Ride%20SMART/Route1.aspx (broken link)

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by fmax

"Now how are all of those... who largely live way down in Detroit supposed to get all the way to 23 Mile and Van Dyke"

Subsidized SMART Buses. See map:

[SIZE=2] System Map[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE] [SIZE=2]Launch the system map to view routes by geographic location[/SIZE]



SMART Time Schedule (http://www.smartbus.org/Smart/Ride%20SMART/Route1.aspx - broken link)

I don't have to break down the math for you to see how flawed that point is, do I? And this is assuming an emplower on 23 Mile and Van Dyke would even hire someone who relies on the bus for transportation and lives in the city of Detroit.

I'm just looking at the situation from a pragmatic point of view. It's really screwed all around. But it's really sad when the average person thinks a poor man is nothing more than a lazy ass.

[fmax]

313,

The people's work ethic isn't the problem. The subsidies is the problem.

If the voters won't do it, Adam Smith's invisible hand will.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

It's really screwed all around. But it's really sad when the average person thinks a poor man is nothing more than a lazy ass.

Since I was the one who mentioned "lazy asses" in my post I guess this is directed at me. First, there is NO place where I say the poor are lazy. If there is PLEASE POST IT. Go ahead, post where I said the poor were lazy.

I said that there are those who milk and abuse the welfare system and those are the ones who are lazy asses. You need to stop trying to spin other posters words to mean something that wasn't even implied. If you really want to continue supporting those who don't want to work because they make as much or more on welfare than they would out actually working and paying into the system, then please do so by just handing over your paycheck to those in your neighborhood who are too bone lazy to get off their butts and try to be productive members of society.

Let me guess, you are one of those that the rest of us are supporting and you don't want your free ride to end. That would make sense why you are so adamant about this issue, and try to spin things out of context.

[us66]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

Do you guys have proof that the vast majority of people on Welfare in Michigan are leeches?

Many are. When I go to Evil*Mart, I often give the Bridge Carders a dirty look or an audible sigh when they take it out. (I've done this in convenience stores, too, when they purchase such nutritional wonders as Red Bull, which goes great with the cigarettes that use up their cash.) Their carts are filled with national brand goodies while my wife complains Great Value cereal is overpriced. They get heating assistance whereas my thermostat only goes over 65 if someone is sick. The absolute best, however, was late one night last winter at the Chesterfield Township Super Evil*Mart- family had two carts, one with food and one with a surround sound system. Dirty look given and noticed by them. I wonder if they have a flat screen television- my television is so old it was MADE IN AMERICA.

Originally Posted by 313Weather

So what plan does our far right state have to enforce those "When they have nothing to lose they lose it" citizens when they're thrown off Welfare?

Good quote from Gerald Celente.



I know bad things happen to good people, but it's awful hard to have sympathy when the system's resources are squandered the way they often are.





































Oh wait...!?

Really, it's almost as if people in this state want to continue to lose people.[/quote]