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Old 10-30-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: north of Windsor, ON
1,901 posts, read 4,303,846 times
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It was also at that point in history where the sunbelt urban areas really came into play. Who would want to live in a dingy Rust Belt or eastern city when you could go west to someplace like Phoenix or Albuquerque where everything was sunny and brand new?
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:36 AM
 
3,369 posts, read 3,623,360 times
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To say Detroit can never be that great again is false but has little truth. Detroit didn't start off being a great city. It was just a peace of land by the river where people decided to settle and offer free land to attract families to Detroit which grew to 800 people in 1765. If they did it before, they can do it again. The truth side to it is... well... times has changed... GREATLY. Detroit and every other decent sized city now has suburbs, in Detroit's case they stretch across different counties. People no longer have to go into the city center to shop, in most cities the best malls in the area is in the suburbs. Same with grocery stores ect. 1930's was a time where there was almost NOTHING outside of most cities... now? suburban people have 50% less of a reason to go to the city at all. How many downtown's do we have left that ARE as busy as animatedmartian posted on a regular basis?
In order to get today's downtown Detroit anywhere near that level on a regular basis would require the density of Manhattan (probably at least 30,000 people) ,the retail development of Manhattan, and decent mass transit (another reason why Manhattan is packed) it would be more people walking around if they didn't have to drive down there.

Downtown Detroit probably will improve in these 3 category's, but to look like that on a regular basis? these days? That would require ALOT of work and enough faith for people to even invest into trying to make it something like that.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Country of BIGOTS and HATERS
18,411 posts, read 19,225,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
I agree with majority of your comment, but with respect to the bolded you took what he said out of context.

Cheap labor was a factor in the auto industry's initial success, because there were no labor laws to speak of. The only company (automobile manufacturer and manufacturer in general) that did treat their employees "well", relative to the time period, was Ford, and Henry Ford did that voluntarily. The autoworkers didn't become truly unionized until FDR and the New Deal (call him what you want, but he was one of, if not the greatest US president, can't say that enough, THE people's president).

Majority of what she said was also correct, it's really just those middle 2 paragraphs that are nothing but lies and political spin. I mean really, he wants to talks about non-European Americans "physically attacking" European Americans. But who enslaved who for centuries first? That part discredits the entire post alone.

Yeah it was, but I would argue cheap labor wasn't "imported," which lead me to the conclusion the OP was saying the industry brought cheap labor in to undermine the unions. As for Henry, what he did was self-serving so he could sell more cars. It was similiar to what was done years early in other industries where employees could only buy goods from the company store. Henry knew the $5.00 a day wage was coming back to him in the end so I would be hard pressed to think of it as an altruistic act towards humanity. Remember, Henry's attitude was quite different on the Miller Street overpass.
By the time non-European labor was imported from America's South unions were in full force in Detroit.

Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 10-30-2011 at 11:55 AM..
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:23 PM
 
5,758 posts, read 9,246,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
Detroit was essentially just a smaller version of Chicago.

Vank Dyke, Davison, Mack, Chene, Mt. Elliot, Hamilton, Warren, 12th Street, Gratiot, Woodward, Grand River, Vernor, Michigan, Fort, etc. and the neighborhoods along these streets were all built like the commercial strips along the streets of Chicago and their neighborhoods. The lower Cass Corridor (near Cass Tech, Masonic Temple, etc.) was filled with nothing but row apartments like the loop in Chicago. Southfield, Troy, Royal Oak and Birmingham were literally the boonies, no one had any reason to be in those places. That's why I hate all of that's gone, because they just don't build stuff like that anymore. If Detroit does come back it's just going to sadly look like another Houston, LA or Atlanta.
Great post! I don't know why some people claim that Detroit was a suburban style city from the begining, and suggesting that it was nearly all single family homes (check out the thread "I have an odd theory about Detroit" where this claim is made). In its hey day from 1910-1970, Detroit was way more similar to Chicago than Chicago was similar to New York.
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:03 PM
 
7,238 posts, read 9,233,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Great post! I don't know why some people claim that Detroit was a suburban style city from the begining, and suggesting that it was nearly all single family homes (check out the thread "I have an odd theory about Detroit" where this claim is made). In its hey day from 1910-1970, Detroit was way more similar to Chicago than Chicago was similar to New York.
In even in 60-70% of the rest of the city, majority of it was built like Chicago outside the loop, with not so much the suburban-style housing but the type of housing that you see around Hamtramck and the lower east side. The Grand Blvd loop was a mixture of densely built single family housing and more row apartments.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Metro-Detroit area
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GrandviewGloria
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Eventually, the non-Europeans began physically attacking those of European extraction. And there were riots, with over 2,000 buildings destroyed. This caused white flight from the city.

Huh..what????

Is there a cure for Alzheimer's yet??

I'm not at home, but give us some basis for your imaginary cause of white flight and black folk attacking white folk.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,222 posts, read 13,766,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
I wouldn't say boom town, but it was moving. This is what Christmas looked like Downtown in the 1930s. During the height of the Great Depression. This was also the decade Detroit started a slow decline despite it not hitting the 1.8 million mark until the 1960s. Which was a common trend among the big cities of the US. The only thing was Detroit's decline accelerated after the 60s instead of leveling off. That can be attributed to a myriad of factors.







I haven't even seen a stream of people that big that were going to the baseball or football games. Even if Detroit gets better I doubt we'll ever see something like that...at least not for another couple of generations.
I don't see any Black people in these pics were these areas off limits to Blacks?
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,222 posts, read 13,766,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
Detroit was built by very smart, extremely industrious Americans, Scandinavians, and Germans. By the time the Auto Pioneers came along, the city already had an advanced industrial base which allowed the Auto Industry to zoom past its competition in Europe and elsewhere in America. In other words, there were already a lot of people there who knew how to make machinery.

But then, the manufacturers started importing cheap labor. In poured fringe-group whites, from iffy areas of Europe. With them came the behavior/integrity problems endemic in their old countries. Later, non-European labor was imported from America's South.

Eventually, the non-Europeans began physically attacking those of European extraction. And there were riots, with over 2,000 buildings destroyed. This caused white flight from the city.

About the same time, the labor unions (run by scary criminals from the fringe areas of Europe) began to cut into the auto manufacturers' profits. Manufacturers began to seek opportunities in non-union states, and in foreign countries. Foreign manufacturers, unburdened by unions and government interference, began to have a competitive advantage over American Industry, with Detroit being heaviest hit by the loss of industrial jobs.

Other cities have reinvented themselves. Minneapolis did. Pittsburgh did. But the lack of Human Capital in Detroit, plus the presence of vast numbers of very dangerous individuals, has made that reinvention both impossible and pointless.

Those who hoped for an emptied-out city which could be rebuilt, have discovered that there has been a recent influx of Illegal Immigrants from Latin America, along with a huge influx of Middle Easterners. These are added to the existing population of irredeemably hopeless Americans remaining in the city. The synergy of these three groups will guarantee that the city remains too toxic to have any future at all.
How can one import people from the same country? Blacks in the South had every right to seek their fortunes in Detroit. Definitely moreso than "industrious Germans and Scandinavians". BTW I thought Detroit was founded by a Black man?

Your revisionist history is pathetic.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,534 posts, read 5,903,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I don't see any Black people in these pics were these areas off limits to Blacks?
Hmm, well it was the pictures were taken in the 1930s. There wasn't a high number of Blacks relative to the whole population.



Though location-wise, I don't see how they wouldn't have been seen downtown.



But then also notice where the slum areas correlate to the black neighborhoods.



So overall, I think that the low percentage of blacks plus the fact that a majority of them lived in the poor neighborhoods meaning they probably had no real reason to be in Downtown because they simply couldn't afford to do anything downtown. I don't think it was off limits, but there was a strong discouragement to keep them from the area.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Michigan
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Another thing to keep in mind is that during the 1940s, when the US entered WWII, Detroit car makers had started building tanks and military vehicles. That's back when the wage for industrial workers in Detroit was way higher than most other places in the country (and sort of still is). A lot of poor black workers started to gain financial freedom when their freedom to move anywhere was still pretty restricted.

At this point (1960s - 1980s), Whites began leaving the city because they didn't want to live around Blacks and/or because of better newer homes were being built in the suburbs and people could afford to move around. Blacks weren't off limits to the suburbs, but they were badly mistreated if they tried to move outside of the city.

1990s - 2010, racial segregation has died down a bit and Blacks were/are now leaving Detroit to live in better communities outside of the city. The massive poverty and drugs leading to crime pretty much did the city in and now we're at present day Detroit struggling to correct itself and become a thriving city again albeit smaller.



While GrandviewGloria's post is pretty racist, the fact is that a lot of people during those critical time frames shared some variation of that belief. While it's the first time that I've heard Europe caused the downfall instead of China, a lot of people think Blacks ruined the city when really both sides are to blame. Whites created laws that restricted Blacks and then when Blacks came into power, they wanted to create a city for themselves through various Afrocentric laws in response to Whites.

So I guess it really depends on who you ask when Detroit's heyday was. Maybe it's yet to come.

Sorry for such a long tirade, I'm just a geek for my hometown's history.
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