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Old 12-18-2011, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Toronto
348 posts, read 568,871 times
Reputation: 266

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Can Placemaking Save Michigan? | Rust Wire

And here you have an explanation of how YOUNG people FIRSTLY look for an ATTRACTIVE place to live......
and THEN
look for a job....

"Placemaking"
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:44 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 11,176,247 times
Reputation: 5588
Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieMirsade View Post
Can Placemaking Save Michigan? | Rust Wire

And here you have an explanation of how YOUNG people FIRSTLY look for an ATTRACTIVE place to live......
and THEN
look for a job....
Exhibit A - You're living in Toronto (a very urban-friendly world class city with a high quality of life) versus, well, Detroit, although you obviously seem to have a vested interest in Detroit's future if you're posting in the Detroit forum, you just don't like what it has to offer presently.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Downtown Detroit
1,497 posts, read 3,137,038 times
Reputation: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
If I'm identifying the posters correctly, per another post on a different forum, this is essentially the straw that's breaking ForStarters' back.
Absolutely. Like many people, I had pinned much of my hope for the city's continued turnaround on the anticipated LRT system. To see it get axed on the eve of construction after 5 years of work and millions of dollars spent really shocked me. Especially since some of Metro Detroit's most prominent business leaders personally committed funding to get the project going.

This decision by our elected officials was, in my opinion, not only a huge mistake, but a clear sign that they are not to be trusted. Their choice to scrap this plan must have been known for months, yet we the voters were strung along and hung out to dry as they fed us misinformation. Their decision to rebuke all the progress for LRT sends a national message that Detroit, Michigan's largest city, is not worthy of receiving even basic infrastructure. Infrastructure that should have been put in place more than 50 years ago.

Bing/Snyder/LaHood's new "plan" for BRT seems like nothing more than a ruse. Basically, Snyder and Bing needed a bone to throw after sending LRT to slaughter behind our backs. The idea that Metro Detroiters are going to pony up money for a third bus system when they refuse to pay for the two systems we already have is laughable. DDOT and SMART are on brink of collapse because they lack of support by many suburban municipalities who opt of service. It seems unlikely that Snyder and Bing even have the political clout to garner the support of enough legislators to force the creation of a Regional Transit Authority, which would be a necessary step before any BRT plan could even be possible. The fact is, extensive BRT service in Metro Detroit is light years away and any promise to the contrary is a lie.

The lack of fixed transit infrastructure in Metro Detroit has set this region back decades. Lost development and growth for the region probably reaches into the tens of billions of dollars. Yet, despite all of the evidence of LRT benefits, we have once again assured ourselves continued decline. There were countless projects in the hopper that were all but guaranteed based on Woodward Ave LRT. Now, most of those projects are in jeopardy.

There is little chance that Detroit can support sustained urban redevelopment without essential infrastructure found in most cities. LRT would have encouraged the kind of focused development and growth that Metro Detroit needs and the benefits could have been shared by both the city and suburbs. It is inconceivable to me that our leaders could set us back this far.

I would like a full and honest explanation from these leaders as to why the LRT plan was killed off months before construction was to begin. I'd like to know how they plan on funding this so-called BRT system that would be equally expensive as Woodward's LRT plan. I'd like to know why we weren't informed of these issues. Bing now says that BRT is better for Detroiters. If that's true, why then did he back the LRT plan over the past several years, making press releases as recently as a month ago singing the praises LRT? The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy and rampant lies.

The decision to trash LRT is enough to drive me and many others right out of the city and state. It's bad enough we have to put up with so much other nonsense for the pleasure of living here, but when you kill the one thing that gives people hope that tomorrow can be better, you've lost my love and affection, as well as my tax dollars.

The private backers behind the original M1 Woodward LRT line have publicly objected to what has happened and are still offering funding to build a 3.4 mile LRT section from the Riverfront to Grand Blvd in New Center. I am hopeful they will succeed to get the ball rolling and I will give them an opportunity to do so before I ultimately vote with my feet. Godspeed, folks.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:10 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,858,929 times
Reputation: 4532
Sounds like Corruption and the Ghetto crowd killed the project , its happened in cities like Newark , Camden , Philly , and Baltimore....Projects will seem fine for years and on track smoothly but at the last moment the Ghetto Crowd convinces Politicians to water down the project or cut it completely. Most Projects have alot of support from the community , but the Ghetto Crowd is afraid of being pushed out...which is what happens when Developers move in. But Most of the Good law bidding residents of each city see that as a good thing..
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Detroit
117 posts, read 165,950 times
Reputation: 53
I agree with ForStarters; it's mind numbing that Bing and Synder could just announce this, as if out of the blue, and clearly not having spoken to any of the philanthropists and business owners who have been crucial in discussing the issue. Or, uh, maybe, you know, they should have let the public be aware of at least the debate that was occurring between the state and the city, and the way Snyder and Bing were thinking of going for a different system than the light rail. The way this has proceeded has been fundamentally un-democratic.

Whatever MI senator called the philanthropists (Gilbert, Kresge, etc.) "angels" wasn't far off the mark, despite the jingoism of the title.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:11 PM
 
12,270 posts, read 7,497,187 times
Reputation: 4716
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForStarters View Post
Absolutely. Like many people, I had pinned much of my hope for the city's continued turnaround on the anticipated LRT system. To see it get axed on the eve of construction after 5 years of work and millions of dollars spent really shocked me. Especially since some of Metro Detroit's most prominent business leaders personally committed funding to get the project going.

This decision by our elected officials was, in my opinion, not only a huge mistake, but a clear sign that they are not to be trusted. Their choice to scrap this plan must have been known for months, yet we the voters were strung along and hung out to dry as they fed us misinformation. Their decision to rebuke all the progress for LRT sends a national message that Detroit, Michigan's largest city, is not worthy of receiving even basic infrastructure. Infrastructure that should have been put in place more than 50 years ago.

Bing/Snyder/LaHood's new "plan" for BRT seems like nothing more than a ruse. Basically, Snyder and Bing needed a bone to throw after sending LRT to slaughter behind our backs. The idea that Metro Detroiters are going to pony up money for a third bus system when they refuse to pay for the two systems we already have is laughable. DDOT and SMART are on brink of collapse because they lack of support by many suburban municipalities who opt of service. It seems unlikely that Snyder and Bing even have the political clout to garner the support of enough legislators to force the creation of a Regional Transit Authority, which would be a necessary step before any BRT plan could even be possible. The fact is, extensive BRT service in Metro Detroit is light years away and any promise to the contrary is a lie.

The lack of fixed transit infrastructure in Metro Detroit has set this region back decades. Lost development and growth for the region probably reaches into the tens of billions of dollars. Yet, despite all of the evidence of LRT benefits, we have once again assured ourselves continued decline. There were countless projects in the hopper that were all but guaranteed based on Woodward Ave LRT. Now, most of those projects are in jeopardy.

There is little chance that Detroit can support sustained urban redevelopment without essential infrastructure found in most cities. LRT would have encouraged the kind of focused development and growth that Metro Detroit needs and the benefits could have been shared by both the city and suburbs. It is inconceivable to me that our leaders could set us back this far.

I would like a full and honest explanation from these leaders as to why the LRT plan was killed off months before construction was to begin. I'd like to know how they plan on funding this so-called BRT system that would be equally expensive as Woodward's LRT plan. I'd like to know why we weren't informed of these issues. Bing now says that BRT is better for Detroiters. If that's true, why then did he back the LRT plan over the past several years, making press releases as recently as a month ago singing the praises LRT? The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy and rampant lies.

The decision to trash LRT is enough to drive me and many others right out of the city and state. It's bad enough we have to put up with so much other nonsense for the pleasure of living here, but when you kill the one thing that gives people hope that tomorrow can be better, you've lost my love and affection, as well as my tax dollars.

The private backers behind the original M1 Woodward LRT line have publicly objected to what has happened and are still offering funding to build a 3.4 mile LRT section from the Riverfront to Grand Blvd in New Center. I am hopeful they will succeed to get the ball rolling and I will give them an opportunity to do so before I ultimately vote with my feet. Godspeed, folks.

I still say, that at least from Washington’s point of view, this decision was partly political. Detroit is seen as a failed region nationally. The fiscal crisis in Washington is beyond acute. Hence, for the administration to sink money into a “failed metropolis”, right before the election, it will be highlighted as an example of waste.

Detroit is a city that America loves to use an example……of failure and problems. Given also the fact that it’s a majority black city, the administration is scared to make such investments now, due to possible perceptions of racial favors (at least that is how it can be spun). In other words, sinking money into a failed city, for a project doomed to fail, because it’s largely an African American city and the President is African American.

The reason that I say this is because I have watched how Obama’s handlers, or Obama himself, went out of the way, during his presidential campaign, to disassociate Obama from the black community. Race is the third rail and if there is any perception that Obama is helping blacks, regardless of who else he is helping, it can hurt his election chances as someone is going to do an ugly commercial about this project, using the third rail like Willie Horton.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:36 PM
 
54,570 posts, read 43,578,631 times
Reputation: 34181
From WHERE to WHERE was the light rail going to run?

Frankly, my first thoughts in seeing this thread was is there enough of a population corridor and jobs corridor to justify building a line? Having lived in Chicago and seeing them have 9x the population and clearly defined population and employment corridors.....and they STILL have had to curtail service due to ridership issues.....I'm wondering if the numbers even work in Detroit?
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:41 PM
 
54,570 posts, read 43,578,631 times
Reputation: 34181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I still say, that at least from Washington’s point of view, this decision was partly political. Detroit is seen as a failed region nationally. The fiscal crisis in Washington is beyond acute. Hence, for the administration to sink money into a “failed metropolis”, right before the election, it will be highlighted as an example of waste.

Detroit is a city that America loves to use an example……of failure and problems. Given also the fact that it’s a majority black city, the administration is scared to make such investments now, due to possible perceptions of racial favors (at least that is how it can be spun). In other words, sinking money into a failed city, for a project doomed to fail, because it’s largely an African American city and the President is African American.

The reason that I say this is because I have watched how Obama’s handlers, or Obama himself, went out of the way, during his presidential campaign, to disassociate Obama from the black community. Race is the third rail and if there is any perception that Obama is helping blacks, regardless of who else he is helping, it can hurt his election chances as someone is going to do an ugly commercial about this project, using the third rail like Willie Horton.
FYI- light rail has failed repeatedly in the KC metro area too. It didn't fail here because of black and white....it failed because of green. Commute times are generally short, the city is spread out in all directions (unlike Chicago, NY, LA where a large body of water has restricted growth to more like 1/2 circle) and the employers have already largely fled the centralized downtown for the burbs.
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:12 PM
 
12,270 posts, read 7,497,187 times
Reputation: 4716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
FYI- light rail has failed repeatedly in the KC metro area too. It didn't fail here because of black and white....it failed because of green. Commute times are generally short, the city is spread out in all directions (unlike Chicago, NY, LA where a large body of water has restricted growth to more like 1/2 circle) and the employers have already largely fled the centralized downtown for the burbs.
Thats not what I said. What I said is that it failed because of politics, probably. Even if Detroit was not a majority black city, this is bad timing for the adminstration to be spending millions on a project in what is seen as a "dying" area. I can visualize that election ads created by the opposition.....with the famous Detroit "ruins" in the background while a sleek new mass transit runs through it empty. The fact that Detroit is a majority black city will only lend fuel to burn in such ads, as the reason Obama is spending money on the city. Of course, that will be the insinuation. The opposition was probably salivating that this project gets funded and started before the election so that they could crank out the ads showing wasteful spending of the Obama adminstration, while the nation is in fiscal crisis.

Thus, this is why I believe that the White house put a stop to it.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 12-19-2011 at 01:52 PM..
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Toronto
348 posts, read 568,871 times
Reputation: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I still say, that at least from Washington’s point of view, this decision was partly political. Detroit is seen as a failed region nationally. The fiscal crisis in Washington is beyond acute. Hence, for the administration to sink money into a “failed metropolis”, right before the election, it will be highlighted as an example of waste.

Detroit is a city that America loves to use an example……of failure and problems. Given also the fact that it’s a majority black city, the administration is scared to make such investments now, due to possible perceptions of racial favors (at least that is how it can be spun). In other words, sinking money into a failed city, for a project doomed to fail, because it’s largely an African American city and the President is African American.

The reason that I say this is because I have watched how Obama’s handlers, or Obama himself, went out of the way, during his presidential campaign, to disassociate Obama from the black community. Race is the third rail and if there is any perception that Obama is helping blacks, regardless of who else he is helping, it can hurt his election chances as someone is going to do an ugly commercial about this project, using the third rail like Willie Horton.
All true, but it's not like Detroit's leadership has been exemplar.

As long as AIPAC has its White House crew "directing" Obama ....
we know what he MUST and CAN'T say or do....and which ethnic-religious-economic groups get the "biggest favors" and "his ear".
Especially before the election.
Let's see what he'll do in the second term.....and if he can finally EARN that Nobel Prize.

Remember when he had to distance himself from the Black Reverend? 'Cause the guy talked too loud....
I wonder what he's gonna say about this rabbi?

Last edited by SadieMirsade; 12-19-2011 at 01:58 PM..
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