Kiss The Light Rail Goodbye... (Detroit, Wayne: credit, loans, university)

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Also, Illitch's rumored new hockey stadium would have had direct connection to the line, supposedly, if it does in fact get built between Cass and Woodward on Temple Street. And then what about the suburban response? So many officials saying that this would have been a good plan and were at least considering it. That's a lot farther than most other plans for this region.


I don't see how Bing can just trash the plan so easily when so many groups were going to capitalize on it. I don't even know if it's worth being frustrated about. But certainly it shouldn't have been so sudden.

Bing does not seem like a fighter to me. His lack of a punch is why so many suburban people liked him and Archer. Detroit mayors with a punch get attacked by the suburbs and media. Now the city has a passive mayor who just goes along.

[SadieMirsade]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Bing does not seem like a fighter to me. His lack of a punch is why so many suburban people liked him and Archer. Detroit mayors with a punch get attacked by the suburbs and media. Now the city has a passive mayor who just goes along.

I kinda think that you gotta punch with your brain,
and not with your mouth, and fists $$$.

If your idea of a good mayor is the kind that antagonizes neighboring communities, and rips off his own $$$....

You definitely seem to have your priorities all upside down.

And Detroiters who keep re-electing goofs and crooks who continually PUNCH HARD, and TALK BIG, but ACCOMPLISH NOTHING,
(except for the fact that they all seem to leave office flush with $$$$)
are facing a bankrupt, dacaying city.

Don't blame the suburbanites and Whites for YOUR CHOICES.

America just went bankrupt because of a guy who talked big, "punched hard", and accomplished NOTHING.
I guess the culture of bull**** bravado transcends party affiliations, class and race.

[Retroit]

First of all, some of you are confusing the Woodward light rail with other cities' light rail. There is a difference between a light rail that uses existing roadways and light rail that uses right-of-ways. Light rail that uses existing roadways only duplicates already existing bus service and moves no faster or not much faster than existing buses. Light rail that uses its own right-of-ways moves much faster and ties the bus routes together over a large area. For example, you would take a quick bus ride to the light rail for a quick ride to another bus. Detroit's system would be you take a long light rail ride. Light rail makes sense when it is tying together a vast bus system.

{Edit: Now that Detroit has so much vacant land, it may be a good time to consider setting aside some of that land for future light rail right-of-ways (before the building boom begins-lol).}

Second, Bing is making a good decision on this. He is a realist thanks to his business background. He knows that with the prospect of bankruptcy or Emergency Financial Manager takeover looming, he can't afford to be spending money the city does not have.

Third, any money that would have been spent on this could find much better uses in the city. The billionaires and foundations that were pushing this should drive through the city and look at what really needs to be done (hint: tear down all the burnt out homes and buildings.)

Fourth, just last year they repaved large sections of Woodward. That should give you some indication that this wasn't seriously in the works.

Hate to say I told you so and I don't want to seem happy that Detroit can't have a cool little Choo-choo train, but I've been around long enough to know how this city works. Fortunately, Detroit may have learned a lesson from the People Mover fiasco.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by SadieMirsade

I kinda think that you gotta punch with your brain,
and not with your mouth, and fists $$$.

If your idea of a good mayor is the kind that antagonizes neighboring communities, and rips off his own $$$....

You definitely seem to have your priorities all upside down.

And Detroiters who keep re-electing goofs and crooks who continually PUNCH HARD, and TALK BIG, but ACCOMPLISH NOTHING,
(except for the fact that they all seem to leave office flush with $$$$)
are facing a bankrupt, dacaying city.

Don't blame the suburbanites and Whites for YOUR CHOICES.

America just went bankrupt because of a guy who talked big, "punched hard", and accomplished NOTHING.
I guess the culture of bull**** bravado transcends party affiliations, class and race.

Well.....you substituted my metaphor with your perceptions of the flaws of previous Detroit mayors. Thanks for the straw man.

You might be right the some previous mayors antagonized local communities. But hey.......if you tell some women that they actually DO look fat in those Jeans.....they consider that antagonizing. The speaker of truth wins few friends. When previous mayors called out the suburbs for their racism.....that was consider antagonistic for those who were used to or expecting passivity from Negroes. This aint the South.

Based upon the Article, it said that suburban government blocked a 600 million dollar grant back in the 70's.....to get light rail. Did you read that?

America did not go bankrupt from "a single guy". You understand nothing! America went bankrupt because it tried to mask its decline with fiscal and monetary policy. You probably do not even understand that if NOT for the debt.....you would see a much worse economic situation right now. The debt did not cause the economic decline, but rather, the debt has MASKED the economic decline. Get rid of the debt and you will likely be waiting in line at your local Soup Kitchen. People can rail against Detroit and its leaders all they want......however, if it could print money it could hide its problems just like the poor leadership of this nation does. To hear people talk of Detroit's decline......as if its in a vacuum....is misguided.

[Indentured Servant]

It just dawned upon me that politics might be involved in this. The election is next year and the Obama adminstration does not want to come under attack, from the Republicans, for "bridge to nowhere" type projects given the fiscal woes of the government. I am sure that Republicans would have jumped all over this and used it against the President. I am apolitical.......in regards to supporting a party......so please no one chime in to attack or defend a party. I am just observing the politics at play....from afar.

[kooks35]

For those enamored with light rail please take a second and look at this:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa663.pdf

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by Retroit

First of all, some of you are confusing the Woodward light rail with other cities' light rail. There is a difference between a light rail that uses existing roadways and light rail that uses right-of-ways. Light rail that uses existing roadways only duplicates already existing bus service and moves no faster or not much faster than existing buses. Light rail that uses its own right-of-ways moves much faster and ties the bus routes together over a large area. For example, you would take a quick bus ride to the light rail for a quick ride to another bus. Detroit's system would be you take a long light rail ride. Light rail makes sense when it is tying together a vast bus system.

{Edit: Now that Detroit has so much vacant land, it may be a good time to consider setting aside some of that land for future light rail right-of-ways (before the building boom begins-lol).}

Second, Bing is making a good decision on this. He is a realist thanks to his business background. He knows that with the prospect of bankruptcy or Emergency Financial Manager takeover looming, he can't afford to be spending money the city does not have.

Third, any money that would have been spent on this could find much better uses in the city. The billionaires and foundations that were pushing this should drive through the city and look at what really needs to be done (hint: tear down all the burnt out homes and buildings.)

Fourth, just last year they repaved large sections of Woodward. That should give you some indication that this wasn't seriously in the works.

Hate to say I told you so and I don't want to seem happy that Detroit can't have a cool little Choo-choo train, but I've been around long enough to know how this city works. Fortunately, Detroit may have learned a lesson from the People Mover fiasco.

For the money (or even less money) the old GTRR trackway could have accommodated additional heavy rail (assuming there was even demand) above and beyond Amtrak. A mile or so of additional trackway could have solved the problem of the "City" line terminus being in the wrong place. It could have even accommodated rail bus service. Much, much lower start up cost than a pork barrel high profile, low revenue stream project up Woodward.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Even LA has light rail! We can't even get that title!

Metro Rail (Los Angeles County) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Detroit instead will just become the worst largest city for mass transit.

It's rated the worst or near the worst in every major statistic imaginable among big cities (Is Detroit even big anymore?). What's one more category.

What I find really comical is the city council refusing to cut their budgets. Evidently they feel each of them needs 700K to staff their office with employees, cars and cell phones. Pure comedy.

[FF-fan]

I don't think this signals the "end" of a possible light-rail system in Metro-Detroit. I think the plan to plop rail directly on Woodward was a bad idea. At the very least, the region should get it's bus transit in order first before they think about light-rail.

I'm sure once that's sorted out, there can be an even better plan for light-rail that makes more fiscal sense to both Detroit and the suburbs.

[SadieMirsade]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Well.....you substituted my metaphor with your perceptions of the flaws of previous Detroit mayors. Thanks for the straw man.

You might be right the some previous mayors antagonized local communities. But hey.......if you tell some women that they actually DO look fat in those Jeans.....they consider that antagonizing. The speaker of truth wins few friends. When previous mayors called out the suburbs for their racism.....that was consider antagonistic for those who were used to or expecting passivity from Negroes. This aint the South.

Based upon the Article, it said that suburban government blocked a 600 million dollar grant back in the 70's.....to get light rail. Did you read that?

America did not go bankrupt from "a single guy". You understand nothing! America went bankrupt because it tried to mask its decline with fiscal and monetary policy. You probably do not even understand that if NOT for the debt.....you would see a much worse economic situation right now. The debt did not cause the economic decline, but rather, the debt has MASKED the economic decline. Get rid of the debt and you will likely be waiting in line at your local Soup Kitchen. People can rail against Detroit and its leaders all they want......however, if it could print money it could hide its problems just like the poor leadership of this nation does. To hear people talk of Detroit's decline......as if its in a vacuum....is misguided.

Oh please.... You don't need to advertise your Phd in Victimology.

If leaders didn't matter, South Africa should now be looking just like Zimbabwe.

If leaders didn't matter, Germans could have slaughtered their Jews and Gypsies a 1000 years earlier. Why did they have to wait for Hitler?

If leaders (and a people's culture and values) didn't matter, there would have been no need for a Million Man March.

ps. That debt is not the biggest problem. Waste is the problem. Military spending is like pi**ing one's blood, instead of urine.