Why everyone in Detroit are so serious?! (Royal Oak, Birmingham: crime, neighborhoods)
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This is faulty logic. If blacks desire to live in a particular area, why would they suddenly stop wanting to live there once they have achieved 20% of the population.
Oh, never mind, I know...it's because white people are racist and can't stand to live near black people.
I certainly can provide you examples of this phenomenon and how it has played out over the years. The first thing to go will be white enrollment levels in the public schools and the schools will then get a repuation for being "bad schools" and whites will leave the area for areas with "good schools".
That said, I am certainly not arguing that dislike of blacks, by whites, is the driving factor. What I am arguing is not intent, but effect. When blacks start moving into an area to a degree that the black percentage goes past 20%.......the exodus of whites quicken from the area....for whatever reason......it seems that doing whats best for them always seem to involve moving away from blacks.
I certainly can provide you examples of this phenomenon and how it has played out over the years. The first thing to go will be white enrollment levels in the public schools and the schools will then get a repuation for being "bad schools" and whites will leave the area for areas with "good schools".
That said, I am certainly not arguing that dislike of blacks, by whites, is the driving factor. What I am arguing is not intent, but effect. When blacks start moving into an area to a degree that the black percentage goes past 20%.......the exodus of whites quicken from the area....for whatever reason......it seems that doing whats best for them always seem to involve moving away from blacks.
I would be very interested in being provided examples of cities that reached a level of 20% black and stayed there indefinitely.
I certainly can provide you examples of this phenomenon and how it has played out over the years. The first thing to go will be white enrollment levels in the public schools and the schools will then get a repuation for being "bad schools" and whites will leave the area for areas with "good schools".
That said, I am certainly not arguing that dislike of blacks, by whites, is the driving factor. What I am arguing is not intent, but effect. When blacks start moving into an area to a degree that the black percentage goes past 20%.......the exodus of whites quicken from the area....for whatever reason......it seems that doing whats best for them always seem to involve moving away from blacks.
It doesn't surprise me that many people would feel that way about Blacks. It is a pattern I've noticed.
I am a West Coast guy at heart. That said, I still have some Midwestern roots, mainly through my father, who is from Milwaukee. A big part of me wants to see Detroit rise and do better.
I look at Detroit and have studied it, and Michigan particularly. I looked at old pictures of Detroit and look at the city today. I get some mixed feelings. I like that Detroit has a grid pattern and that it's straightforward in design. The architecture, Gothic Revival, Neo-Classical, Renaissance Revival, stuff from the Gilded Age. Detroit was nicknamed Paris of The Midwest. It was founded as a French fort(way before the USA even existed). It was a key city in the Underground Railroad. Stuff was actually built in Detroit, such as the automobile There is something special about Detroit. To me, there is no reason why it shouldn't rise and be even better.
On the other hand, this part of me gets kind of cynical. I want to see Detroit be greater and to shine again. I also want the Black population to be part of it. Motown started in Detroit. From Motown you have artists like Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Diana Ross,etc. Techno is a Detroit area phenomenon founded by African-Americans. That noted, there are people who will blame Black people for Detroit's problems, and only Black people. There are people who feel that in order for Detroit to get better, Blacks must leave. This is a pattern I notice for many places. Many of the "urban renewal" projects aren't always there to help the residents in the immediate area. Rather, some of these projects are merely a means of population replacement. It is generally to make the city look good, rather than to help the residents. Atlanta tore down housing projects to prepare for the Olympics. People felt like the housing projects would look bad to the rest of the world. The crime that was in the housing projects fanned out into Clayton County and some other adjacent counties. Crime in Atlanta was very bad until the last few years.
Bigotry has existed in Detroit for many years. All one has to do is look up Ossian Sweet. One can look up the restrictive covenants that existed in Detroit. Black people came to Detroit to work in the automobile factories. When the factories were laying off or closing, this caused problems. It didn't help that racial tensions were palpable to a point of violence and that government corruption is been a part of Detroit for many years(before the Young years).
Detroit had alot of jobs and not nearly as much decay back in the early to mid-20th century as oppose to 2012. On the other hand, I am much aware that the mid-20th century, even with jobs, wasn't a nice time for Black people. My thoughts are that people can learn from the bad parts of Detroit's history and to rebuild, making an even better city for everyone. One of my skills is cartography. I am thinking it could be of good used for rebuilding.
Thanks a lot for the corrections, hope I will remember that in the future. I'm here for the sake of learning, so thanks for enlightening me.
I never thought about Detroit as an insular city before, but you'r right, it does make a lot of sense for me. It bothers me when Detroiters say stuff like "Detroit is a diverse city". I heard that a lot. It's not true though. Detroit is a black city, although it's probably better than small white town, it's just not diverse. Majority black and some Arabs OUTSIDE of Detroit and a couple of Mexican in one small neighborhood. That's it. I'm not even sure how Greek is Greek town!
Do you know of any publications/blogs/books that offer a constructive criticism of the city of Detroit that you might recommend.
Thanks
Although you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I think you are wrong.
First off, I think the opposite true. Most Detroit area people in general are more likely to have a rather "given up" attitude. I don't think people are overly defensive, in fact I think they need a boost of pride. And since all they get is negative press, it makes sense that the few that do have pride for the city, would get defensive.
Secondly, I disagree with you about Detroits diversity. I think the metro area is definitely diverse. It certainly not anything like the big three diverse cities of the United States (IMO which are New York, LA, and Miami) but here I will correct you.
The Detroit area is not home to SOME Arabs outside the city. It is home to THE largest Arab community in north america. Including Lebanese, Iraqis, Yemenis, maybe Palestinians, in addition to the more established communities of Christian Arabs (Assyrians/Chaldeans and Lebanese Christian. (LA is home to the largest non-Arab middle eastern communities of Iranians and Armenians) but metro Detroit has the biggest population of ethnic Arabs. Plus Detroit has some of the larger communities of non-middle eastern muslims.
A couple of Mexicans? Seriously? Yes, overall Detroit hispanic population remains a small percentage, but southwest Detroit is 2/3 Mexican. Outside of SW Detroit, however Mexicans are a small percentage. Nonetheless, SW-Detroit Mexicantown is vibrant.
Hamtramck, which was home to the largest community of Polish-Americans second to Chicago (they've largely scattered and assimilated) has experienced immigration of Albanians and Bangladeshis (culturally muslim, not middle east).
Speaking of Hamtramck, during Detroits auto boom heyday from the 1910s to the 1950s Detroit was home to European immigrants from all across the European continent. And left their imprint as they've scattered and assimilated. But all American cities are like that in terms of their European enclaves. As European countries had a high quality of life similar to the US, they stopped immigrating, and European enclaves in American cities became reduced to more heritage tourist districts with restaurants, etc. Chicagos Greektown is the same way. In addition to Detroit Greektown, there are a few Polish institutions in Hamtramck, as well as the revitalizing Corktown, once home to the Irish population. Oakland County is home to a large Jewish community, and Macomb County has a decent Italian heritage in addition to the the children and grandchildren of Hamtramck Poles.
Granted yes, the city itself is overwhelingly black, but it is one of the top cities for black heritage and achievement. Although the Motown days are history, the city of Detroit is home to some of the wealthiest black communities outside of DC, Atlanta, New York, and LA. (the top four metros with huge black professional populations).
That would be understandable if you were a racist. But if you weren't, you would judge a city by something other than the skin color of the inhabitants. Like maybe crime rates, social breakdown, disrespect for one's neighbors and environment, corruption & incompetence of government, lack of a good educational system, etc.
Just saying...
Well, the city could be filled with immigrants from Africa and I certainly would not feel the way I feel currently about the city, despite skin color. Detroit offers a culture of the descendants of enslaved Americans. If America would have enslaved whites along with blacks......I could share in that culture with white brothers and sisters too. However, since whites made it a black thang that is why it manifest as a black thing today.
Well, the city could be filled with immigrants from Africa and I certainly would not feel the way I feel currently about the city, despite skin color. Detroit offers a culture of the descendants of enslaved Americans. If America would have enslaved whites along with blacks......I could share in that culture with white brothers and sisters too. However, since whites made it a black thang that is why it manifest as a black thing today.
Well, almost all indentured servants were white, so maybe you could share in some of their culture.
Guys, your fight about race is a proof of the seriousness nature of Detroit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il?
Although you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I think you are wrong.
First off, I think the opposite true. Most Detroit area people in general are more likely to have a rather "given up" attitude. I don't think people are overly defensive, in fact I think they need a boost of pride. And since all they get is negative press, it makes sense that the few that do have pride for the city, would get defensive.
Secondly, I disagree with you about Detroits diversity. I think the metro area is definitely diverse. It certainly not anything like the big three diverse cities of the United States (IMO which are New York, LA, and Miami) but here I will correct you.
The Detroit area is not home to SOME Arabs outside the city. It is home to THE largest Arab community in north america. Including Lebanese, Iraqis, Yemenis, maybe Palestinians, in addition to the more established communities of Christian Arabs (Assyrians/Chaldeans and Lebanese Christian. (LA is home to the largest non-Arab middle eastern communities of Iranians and Armenians) but metro Detroit has the biggest population of ethnic Arabs. Plus Detroit has some of the larger communities of non-middle eastern muslims.
A couple of Mexicans? Seriously? Yes, overall Detroit hispanic population remains a small percentage, but southwest Detroit is 2/3 Mexican. Outside of SW Detroit, however Mexicans are a small percentage. Nonetheless, SW-Detroit Mexicantown is vibrant.
Hamtramck, which was home to the largest community of Polish-Americans second to Chicago (they've largely scattered and assimilated) has experienced immigration of Albanians and Bangladeshis (culturally muslim, not middle east).
Speaking of Hamtramck, during Detroits auto boom heyday from the 1910s to the 1950s Detroit was home to European immigrants from all across the European continent. And left their imprint as they've scattered and assimilated. But all American cities are like that in terms of their European enclaves. As European countries had a high quality of life similar to the US, they stopped immigrating, and European enclaves in American cities became reduced to more heritage tourist districts with restaurants, etc. Chicagos Greektown is the same way. In addition to Detroit Greektown, there are a few Polish institutions in Hamtramck, as well as the revitalizing Corktown, once home to the Irish population. Oakland County is home to a large Jewish community, and Macomb County has a decent Italian heritage in addition to the the children and grandchildren of Hamtramck Poles.
Granted yes, the city itself is overwhelingly black, but it is one of the top cities for black heritage and achievement. Although the Motown days are history, the city of Detroit is home to some of the wealthiest black communities outside of DC, Atlanta, New York, and LA. (the top four metros with huge black professional populations).
Detroit may not be your city, but it is diverse.
I'm talking about the CITY of Detroit, not the Metro area. A city that is the same size as Manhattan, Boston, and San Francisco combined together; yet not diverse. But you are right about the Metro Area.
The people from the suburbs are the only people who have a "given up" attitude toward Detroit.
The people from the suburbs are the only people who have a "given up" attitude toward Detroit.
Considering the number of people who have left Detroit in recent years, I would say that many Detroiters have a "given up" attitude.
No, I'm not talking about the 20-something year old white yuppies that are moving into midtown/downtown/Corktown/etc., but the vast majority of blacks that live in the crime-ridden, decaying neighborhoods.
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