Is Cleveland in better/worse shape than Detroit? (foreclose, crime)

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by scolls

Detroiters can't walk across a street?

That's not the point.

No one in a city of 700,000 should have to step outside of thecity's borders at all to shop at a Target or Kroger.

[scolls]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

That's not the point.

No one in a city of 700,000 should have to step outside of thecity's borders at all to shop at a Target or Kroger.

Then they shouldn't have destroyed the Target and Kroger stores that were in their city's border.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by scolls

Then they shouldn't have destroyed the Target and Kroger stores that were in their city's border.

Which gets back to the point that exit18b is more or less correct.

[scolls]

Originally Posted by 313Weather

Which gets back to the point that exit18b is more or less correct.

No he's not because there are still stores to buy clothes, groceries and cars in the city of Detroit.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by scolls

No he's not because there are still stores to buy clothes, groceries and cars in the city of Detroit.

Relative to Cleveland (the supposed 2nd worst major city in the 1st world)?

[Locutus of Board]

This is debate is getting ridiculous.

Detroit does have independent grocers, but most of them are pretty disgusting/shabby places. God bless the merchants that operate them, because they have figured out a way to serve a vital need in the city while turning a profit, but that doesn't mean that I would shop in one of their establishments. There is a reason why major supermarket chains refrain from Detroit.

Meijer has been talking about opening shop in Detroit for a long time. Plans means nothing. Even if they built 2 Meijers in Detroit, it would not change the ground reality relative to Cleveland.

I have no ties to Cleveland and don't even particularly like the city. Cleveland is very distressed also. It has lost a massive number of jobs, population, and businesses both to its suburbs, as well as places like Chicago and also to the sunbelt. The only rust belt city that's doing "well" is perhaps Pittsburgh, and even it continues to lose population. Cleveland is perhaps somewhere in between Detroit and Pittsburgh both literally and in terms of comeback.

Ideally comeback would be judged by measures such as population growth after a long decline, but that's almost asking too much. But when you look at quality of life measures including public schools, crime rates, access to good retail, quality of roads, police/ambulance response times, as well as things like public finances, corporate strength in the city, etc. then there is no doubt that Cleveland is ahead of Detroit.

[maclock]

Originally Posted by Locutus of Board

This is debate is getting ridiculous.

There's as much, if not more, of it in store for you, Locutus of Board. Trust me. People are likely lurking around this thread as I type, thinking of disingenuous ways to discredit you or to "prove" you wrong.

[scolls]

Originally Posted by maclock

There's as much, if not more, of it in store for you, Locutus of Board. Trust me. People are likely lurking around this thread as I type, thinking of disingenuous ways to discredit you or to "prove" you wrong.

So someone starts a debate thread, one person says city A is better, but it's then wrong for people to counter with why city B is better? What's disingenuous is to open up a debate and say this is right and any opposition is wrong.

[maclock]

Originally Posted by scolls

So someone starts a debate thread, one person says city A is better, but it's then wrong for people to counter with why city B is better? What's disingenuous is to open up a debate and say this is right and any opposition is wrong.

If there is any major city in the United States that is in worse shape overall than Detroit proper, and I suppose it is possible that there is such a city, then I don't want to see it. The point is that hardscrabble as it may be, Cleveland proper is in better shape than Detroit proper.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by MarvinStrong313

Half of it's skyscrapers empty huh?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Do you guys ever come up with anything new?
I take it u haven't been to Baltimore or STL if u can say no place is comparable, only difference is size of the city of Detroit. Even then, Philly and half of Chicago are comparable to Detroit too. And another thing how much time did u spend while you were down here? it had to be a very long time to go threw every neighborhood in the city and come to the conclusion that the whole city is completely abandon or whatever.

The South Bronx of The 1980's PART 1 - YouTube

Baltimore vs Philly vs D.C vs Camden Nj hoods - YouTube

I work in Baltimore. You should actually read what he is saying instead of getting defensive. Every city has bad areas and Baltimore has its share but the downtown skyscrapers are not boarded up shells as they are in Detroit.