Is Cleveland in better/worse shape than Detroit? (Flint, Ann Arbor: how much, neighborhoods)

[TBideon]

The two cities have so many parallels on so many levels it's eerie. I'm just wondering how Cleveland compares overall (and I'm not talking about Forbes' lists but rather Detroiters' perceptions of the cities).

How would you guys, presuming you know both cities pretty well, stack up the two? Though Cleveland's clearly a smaller city, my guess is they're virtually identical, with Cleveland's downtown being a bit safer and cleaner overall, and Detroit's Big Auto bringing in more tax revenue. Plus with both cities' neighborhoods being in shambles with some trendy and middle class areas here and there.

Those are my guesses, but I really don't know Detroit that well.

[Retroit]

I'm not thoroughly familiar with Cleveland, but I'd say Detroit is in worse shape. Just by surveying Cleveland using www.bing.com/maps, it is apparent that much more of Cleveland is intact than Detroit. Looks like the worst areas are to the east of downtown. Cleveland also retained a large white population Race and ethnicity: Cleveland | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/walkingsf/4982012306/in/photostream/ - broken link) and Cleveland (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau. Cleveland is also half the size of Detroit, both city proper and metro area Cleveland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

[animatedmartian]

Well...short answer: Yes. Cleveland is better off. Long answer...

It's sort of complicated because Detroit's economy is spread throughout the region rather than within city proper.

I think most non-metro Detroiters would be surprised to learn that city proper is not where most of the Big 3 facilities are located. A large amount of facilities are in the suburban areas, including Ford and Chryslers' headquarters as well as the tech centers for all three companies and a majority of their manufacturing plants.

And so, the city of Detroit doesn't generate as much tax money off of them as you'd think. In fact, most of Detroit's tax burden is placed on the citizens and residential property value (for which both numbers are continually shrinking).

[313Weather]

Better.

[gameguy56]

Tremont, Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, and the area around Case Western are all really nice. Detroit has nice areas too but the intact business districts of these Cleveland neighborhoods are definitely something that detroit lacks. This is also true of the nice areas of Buffalo and Cincinnati. They have intact business districts.

[escilade18]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

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I think most non-metro Detroiters would be surprised to learn that city proper is not where most of the Big 3 facilities are located. A large amount of facilities are in the suburban areas, including Ford and Chryslers' headquarters as well as the tech centers for all three companies and a majority of their manufacturing plants.

\

I was amazed at how far out of downtown Chrysler was headquartered. Ironically, they are the ones who tout being "imported from Detroit"
Chrysler 300 Commercial / Imported from Detroit - "See it Through" - YouTube

[danielj72]

Anyone who has seen both cities would have to say Cleveland is better off. Detroit proper is the worst major city in North America. Ive been all over this nation, and while ive seen bad areas in all cities, ive never seen a major city that is almost completly run down. Ive never seen so much abandonment, and never seen half of a cities skysrapers empty with broken out windows. Detroits condition is shocking, and it compares to nothing in the entire USA. You can googe "ruins of Detroit" and get tons of hits and youtube videos. How many cities could that be true for?? Cleveland is far nicer. Now if you take Detroits suburban ring into account, it compares to most American cities. Just dont cross into Detroit proper and everything looks just fine. It really is a shame what happened to Detroit proper, it used to be something.

[MS313]

Originally Posted by danielj72

Anyone who has seen both cities would have to say Cleveland is better off. Detroit proper is the worst major city in North America. Ive been all over this nation, and while ive seen bad areas in all cities, ive never seen a major city that is almost completly run down. Ive never seen so much abandonment, and never seen half of a cities skysrapers empty with broken out windows. Detroits condition is shocking, and it compares to nothing in the entire USA. You can googe "ruins of Detroit" and get tons of hits and youtube videos. How many cities could that be true for?? Cleveland is far nicer. Now if you take Detroits suburban ring into account, it compares to most American cities. Just dont cross into Detroit proper and everything looks just fine. It really is a shame what happened to Detroit proper, it used to be something.

Half of it's skyscrapers empty huh?
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Do you guys ever come up with anything new?
I take it u haven't been to Baltimore or STL if u can say no place is comparable, only difference is size of the city of Detroit. Even then, Philly and half of Chicago are comparable to Detroit too. And another thing how much time did u spend while you were down here? it had to be a very long time to go threw every neighborhood in the city and come to the conclusion that the whole city is completely abandon or whatever.

The South Bronx of The 1980's PART 1 - YouTube

Baltimore vs Philly vs D.C vs Camden Nj hoods - YouTube

[animatedmartian]

Originally Posted by escilade18

I was amazed at how far out of downtown Chrysler was headquartered. Ironically, they are the ones who tout being "imported from Detroit"

Actually, I don't see anything wrong with it. In a national/global sense, they are still within metro Detroit and it's not unusual for people to travel across the region on a daily basis. It'd be weird if it was they were HQ'd in Flint or Ann Arbor or something (which AA is actually closer by a lot but isn't considered apart of the metro).

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by danielj72

Anyone who has seen both cities would have to say Cleveland is better off. Detroit proper is the worst major city in North America. Ive been all over this nation, and while ive seen bad areas in all cities, ive never seen a major city that is almost completly run down. Ive never seen so much abandonment, and never seen half of a cities skysrapers empty with broken out windows. Detroits condition is shocking, and it compares to nothing in the entire USA. You can googe "ruins of Detroit" and get tons of hits and youtube videos. How many cities could that be true for?? Cleveland is far nicer. Now if you take Detroits suburban ring into account, it compares to most American cities. Just dont cross into Detroit proper and everything looks just fine. It really is a shame what happened to Detroit proper, it used to be something.

Your choice of adverbs and adjectives......"Almost Completely".....is subjective. Is the glass half empty or half full depends on whose talking.

A city is much more than buildings. Its about the people too. Detroit still produces a lot of talent for the world. I do not think that there are many cities that people are more proud to say they are from or represent, than Detroiters. I am not talking about people from suburban Detroit. I am talking about city folks. Detroiters STAND UP... aint no pitty party.

Metaphorically, its unsympathetic when a nuclear bomb is dropped, then years later people talk about the level of destruction, rates of cancer, birth defects, deformities and such.......as if it makes no sense and that its the fault of the people that remain. Nuclear bombs produce destruction and radiation in its aftermath, that transcends time and space.