Why are people so proud of Detroit? (Warren, Lansing: fingerprints, house)

[odinloki1]

I'm proud of Detroit because there are good people there. I think the executives that sold the auto industry down the river should be made to live in the slums and all of their money given to the pooer. Unfortunately the people who spent such a long time fighting to be treated like the good honest hardworking people that they are were sold out by Michigan the federal government and most of all, the big three.

I live in Tucson right now in an ok house and I'd move back in a heartbeat if I could find a job. The big problem though is not in the fault of the people or the unions, but those executives that sold us out to Mexico and China. Detroit will be on top again, just give them time.

[Monumental1]

Hello people of Detroit,

I just wanted to come into your forum, and let you know what someone thinks, who has never been to Detroit, and lives were you might consider a world away. "The west coast"

I have lived in Seattle, and Los Angeles my entire life on the west coast.

Right now I'm in Seattle, on Mercer Island, one of the wealthiest areas in Seattle, with new homes, condos etc (I'm black) and not amonst the wealthiest in my neighborhood, because I live next to multi millionaires. I'm five minutes from Downtown Seattle, which is full with people everywhere everyday, million dollar condos going up everywhere, Nordstrom this gucci, fendi, that...............why isn't it like this in Detroit?

Seattle is very white.......Detroit is very black.
Is that the reason? (I don't think so........Ladera Heights in L.A. is very black, and is on par with Beverly Hills) so whats the deal with Detroit?

Are the slums, and urban decay in Detroit racial? Can you really say that?

Atlanta is a black city? Atlanta is thriving.

Racism,.........maybe to a degree. The things the have hurt blacks in america outside of racism, are alot of our own doing. Drugs, Alcohol, Gangs, most importantly.......education.

Having a sense of self worth, sticking together, spending money in your own community, educating yourself, building businesses.....we have to do these things.

To keep it real,........you don't see whites detroying their neighborhoods, killing eachother, etc. .........in the same breath, white flight doesn't destroy neighborhoods, PEOPLE DO. (People ignored)

Thank God......I've seen alot of change in recent years, from my people. Blacks across america are doing very well and are affluent in many cities.....This type of African American needs to take over the "what's hip to us" in our culture" Our culture has opperated alot on what's cool to us, instead of what's good for us. (Let's make Affluent the new cool) and keep it that way. Because soon........the only color that's going to matter is green.

I grew up on motown, my mother played motown music all day. So I love Detroit, and the contributions its made to the US, and our culture. You should be very proud of Detroit.

Detroit is down right now, but with the care of its citizens, you can help rebuild it, and make it better than before. (Simular to New Orleans)

If Detroit does get rebuilt, I hope your towns African Americans don't let gentrification push you out of a city you put on the Map.

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by Monumental1

Are the slums, and urban decay in Detroit racial? Can you really say that?

Atlanta is a black city? Atlanta is thriving.

Atlanta has a higher percentage of black residents below the poverty line than Detroit does.

When you mention Ladera Heights... it's just a class thing. There are smart, educated, career successful people of all races/ethnicities. It's just that geography determines where different classes live. For some reason I doubt Ladera Heights was a poor black neighborhood that turned wealthy because the residents there educated themselves and such. What probably happened was the educated blacks from all throughout LA chose to move there.

Inner city homes, in places like Detroit and Chicago, tend to have relatively small lots, and are cheap... so the poor black move into these areas. The ones that get educated and get good jobs tend to leave these areas, for wealthier neighborhoods. The poor neighborhoods tend to get worse rather than better, (like in Chicago) even if the black population as a whole improves in income/education/etc (like in Chicago).

Atlanta's growth probably has a lot to do with new people moving in to the city limits, who are on average better educated and wealthier than the current residents.

I wish things were different, but it just doesn't seem that neighborhoods can pick themselves up without simply replacing its residents.

You are right that the African American population as a whole has been changing steadily in recent years. IMO it seems like things are getting better and better overall, which is great news not just for the AA population but the nation as a whole.

But anyway with regards to the original post... okay maybe Detroit can seem bad. But it's all about comparison. Americans used to different kinds of cities and towns. Thing is regardless of how 'bad' Detroit is, it is still home to a LOT of people. And while it could be seen as bad... there are plenty of places in the world that I would guess to consider 'worse'. People still live and enjoy their lives there. Sometimes you have to love what you have, for better or worse. Nothing is perfect. A lot of it IMO, when it comes to anything in life, is mindset, and comparison.

[michiganirish]

Originally Posted by and the

It is when you're trying to sound like you know what you're talking about vis a vis the City of Detroit. You may as well be a Washington DC resident trying to sound like you know what you're talking about when referring to President George Butch and Vice President Rick Laney. Although if you talked about Billary Crinton, we'd know you were an insider.

Detroit has a potentially great future. Just not in our lifetime.

Look, I got the man's last name incorrect, but I do know Detroit. Having been born and raised there and at 56 years old I have seen it go from a thriving city with so much to offer, to being the butt of jokes across the country.

So you can stop your cutsey linguistic analogies and move on.

Originally Posted by odinloki1

I'm proud of Detroit because there are good people there. I think the executives that sold the auto industry down the river should be made to live in the slums and all of their money given to the pooer. Unfortunately the people who spent such a long time fighting to be treated like the good honest hardworking people that they are were sold out by Michigan the federal government and most of all, the big three.

I live in Tucson right now in an ok house and I'd move back in a heartbeat if I could find a job. The big problem though is not in the fault of the people or the unions, but those executives that sold us out to Mexico and China. Detroit will be on top again, just give them time.

Detroit's decline started long before the auto industry began their move out of Michigan and the country. It began with Coleman A. Young. A mayor that had the opportunity to bridge the gap between it's black and white citizens. Instead he created a larger chasm with his racism. He wasn't concerned with Detroit, his agenda was "pay-back". He robbed the black population that stayed in Detroit of a future and made it impossible for them to move on. He fostered an atmosphere of distrust between the two races and made it very clear who he thought was to blame. After the riots and his election he could have repaired what was broken in Detroit, instead King Coleman sat on his throne and watched Detroit slowly eat itself alive.

[and the]

Look, I got the man's last name incorrect, but I do know Detroit. Having been born and raised there and at 56 years old I have seen it go from a thriving city with so much to offer, to being the butt of jokes across the country.

So you can stop your cutsey linguistic analogies and move on.

You're 56 years old, born and raised in Detroit and didn't know it was Berry GORDY who founded Motown? I'm guessing you were raised in the suburbs. Big difference. It's typical for a suburbanite to blame Detroit's decline on Coleman Young. That's the easy way out. If you're 56 now, what could Coleman Young have done to convince you to move into the city of Detroit in the mid 70's in his first term when you were in your 20's? What could any politician do or say to prevent the white flight that started right after WWII? He did what any politician would do. He played up to his constituents and those constituents were not white.

[michiganirish]

Originally Posted by Monumental1

Racism,.........maybe to a degree. The things the have hurt blacks in america outside of racism, are alot of our own doing. Drugs, Alcohol, Gangs, most importantly.......education.

As I stated in my last response to a post in this thread, Coleman A Young the Detroit mayor after the riots (re-elected over 20 years) created most of the problems the black population in Detroit have today. The black citizens that wanted something better left almost at the same time as the "white flight" in Detroit. Dennis Archer, the mayor after Young was, according to many Detroit citizens, "not black enough" the standard quote when pudits talk about Archer is "he was never popular with loyalists" of Young. (Archer was a Michigan Supreme Court Judge and in his last year on that bench he was named the "most respected Judge in Michigan" before becoming Mayor of Detroit.) When he ran for mayor the first time in 1993 he did not win the majority of the black vote. In his second term he was a subject of a recall by his opponents. He decided not to run for a third term. He had wonderful plans for the reconstruction of Detroit and had a great rapport with Detroit's suburban neighbors, something Coleman Young had managed to destroy over his 20 year reign.

To keep it real,........you don't see whites detroying their neighborhoods, killing eachother, etc. .........in the same breath, white flight doesn't destroy neighborhoods, PEOPLE DO. (People ignored)

It's not a matter of blacks a neighborhoods and whites do not. It's the caliper of the people living in those neighborhoods no matter the color of their skin. A drug dealer, prostitute, or a theif etc, is the same in every color. I will agree on one thing, white flight didn't destroy Detroit, because it wasn't only the whites that left. It was the responsible, caring citizens of every color that left. The people in Detroit were not ignored, they were taken for a ride, by a man that saw them as an opportunity to create a situation in Detroit that would keep him in high style for 20 years.

This type of African American needs to take over the "what's hip to us" in our culture" Our culture has opperated alot on what's cool to us, instead of what's good for us. (Let's make Affluent the new cool) and keep it that way. Because soon........the only color that's going to matter is green.

In my opinion it's not the color green that's going to bring Detroit back. It's going to have to be the color of peoples hearts. You can't move forward when your heart isn't good. When you have no respect for yourself or anyone else there is no future. When your children look up to rich drug dealers instead of teachers, doctors, lawyers, ministers, priests, policemen, etc... green doesn't mean very much does it? When the gang is more important than the family, hard work is for fools and the easy money of crime is applauded, and getting an education is for the suckers, that doesn't make green the color either.

If Detroit does get rebuilt, I hope your towns African Americans don't let gentrification push you out of a city you put on the Map.

I really don't what to make out of that statement. It isn't gentrification that Detroit needs it's humanization, and if that happens I don't think anyone will be pushed out of the city.

[michiganirish]

Originally Posted by and the

You're 56 years old, born and raised in Detroit and didn't know it was Berry GORDY who founded Motown? I'm guessing you were raised in the suburbs. Big difference. It's typical for a suburbanite to blame Detroit's decline on Coleman Young. That's the easy way out. If you're 56 now, what could Coleman Young have done to convince you to move into the city of Detroit in the mid 70's in his first term when you were in your 20's? What could any politician do or say to prevent the white flight that started right after WWII? He did what any politician would do. He played up to his constituents and those constituents were not white.

For the last time, I KNEW who Berry Gordy was, I just spelled his last name wrong, so let's move on okay?

I grew up on Warwick near Tireman, Detroit enough for you? And you should remember what they say about making unfounded assumtions before you spout your innane comments.

Coleman Young could have made the difference in Detroit. He was a man that was known to have life long hatred for whites (although I read an biography of Young that it was a white man that was responsible for his converstion to the Catholic faith). In his defense though, he grew up in an era where there was no regard for the black race, he was denied scholarships to various "white" high education institutions. But he didn't grow up in the ghetto either. He lived in the "Black Bottom" area of Detroit which was racial mixed even at that time. And his family was not poor, he attended private schools. He went on to become a senator and remained in the senate until he was elected mayor. This was not a man without the advantages. He was a man that saw the injustice that the blacks of Detroit were suffering under and instead of working to right those injustices, it fueled his hatred.

He won his election (BTW, at the time he was elected the city of Detroit was mostly white, and that is who elected him) to the mayorship by promising to ease tensions in the city. (Mostly between the nearly all white police department and the black residents. Which he did do to a degree by having more minority officers on the force.) Instead he created the chasm that still exsists between the city and the suburbs. His policies to "direct" city contracts to minority (read: black) businesses sparked a Federal Investigation against him. Just one more reason for him to isolate himself against the white community. He surrounded himself with corupt associates, his police chief (Hill, I believe) eventually went to jail.

He perpetuated the sterotype of a racist's opinion of a black man when he fathered a child and would not acknowledge the baby until a DNA test was performed. He was foul mouthed, and rude, he was just what every suburbanite feared.

By the time he left office he had polarized the city, and he liked it that way.

You bet he played up to his constituents..... every thug in town loved him.

[and the]

I read "Hard Stuff" too. No need to summarize. And it was Bill "Hart", not "Hill" who was chief of police. White people did NOT elect Coleman Young. No way, no how. A few of them may have voted for him, but not enough to even be a swing vote. He NARROWLY beat John Nichols, not because so many white folks voted for him but because enough black folks were organized and motivated enough to vote.

And white flight started as soon as the war production contracts ran out, not in the 50's or 60's. Detroit attracted hundreds of thousands of southern whites who came to Detroit for the sole purpose of cashing in on government defense contracts and who had no intention of staying. When the jobs dried up, they started to leave. And with all the cheap housing that was built to house war workers, guess who moved in? What happened in and to Detroit was inevitable. Coleman Young or no Coleman Young.

Can you cite a source that says "Black Bottom" was raciallly mixed? The entertainment district of Paradise Valley may have been, but I've never read anything credible to indicate the Black Bottom residential area was racially mixed in the mid 1900's.

How old were you when you moved from Warwick?

[The Artist]

I'm proud of Detroit because it's where I was raised, it may be a crappy city but it's my crappy city.

[michiganirish]

Originally Posted by and the

I read "Hard Stuff" too. No need to summarize. And it was Bill "Hart", not "Hill" who was chief of police. White people did NOT elect Coleman Young. No way, no how. A few of them may have voted for him, but not enough to even be a swing vote. He NARROWLY beat John Nichols, not because so many white folks voted for him but because enough black folks were organized and motivated enough to vote.

Your right of course it was Bill Hart that was the police chief. And while your are correct he did win the election by a narrow margin, I still believe I'm right in saying that he would not have won without votes from white Detroiters. Remember, at the time (1970) Detroit's population stood at over 56%, which even simple mathematics tell you that without the vote of whites he would not have won, no matter which ethnicity was organized or highly motivated.

Perhaps I mistated myself in saying white voters elected him, but it was white votes that made the difference in the election.

And white flight started as soon as the war production contracts ran out, not in the 50's or 60's. Detroit attracted hundreds of thousands of southern whites who came to Detroit for the sole purpose of cashing in on government defense contracts and who had no intention of staying. When the jobs dried up, they started to leave. And with all the cheap housing that was built to house war workers, guess who moved in? What happened in and to Detroit was inevitable. Coleman Young or no Coleman Young.

While I will agree that the shift to the suburbs began after WWII, I would hardly call it a "white flight". It took over 20 years for the white population in Detroit to fall from over 90% in 1940 to 56% in 1970. Hardly a wide scale flight. I believe during that time much of that was representative of my family. As the children grew up, married and established their own house holds they left the city to do that.

What really began the white movement to the burbs was the start of desegregation of the Detroit high schools in 1970. By 1978 Detroit had lost about 3/4 of it's white student population. When I graduated in 1970 from Cody High I think we had only 2 black students in my class. By the time my youngest brother gradutated 14 years later (from Cody) the demographics had changed dramacticly.

In our neighborhood when the desegration of the schools started, which were primarily white in 1970, it wasn't so much about who the kids were going to school with as it was about where they were going to school. No one wanted to send there kids across town to school.

It was never an issue in our home. Athough none of us were ever sent to another district, I do remember the discussion when the plan to desgregate the schools came up. My parents additude was if we had to go to school somewhere else in the city, so be it. Education was education, no matter who you went to school with or where the school was.

While I acknowledge that the race relations in Detroit were not good and never was, I always get a bit touchy when the state of Detroit today is blamed on "white flight" As my parents neighborhood's demographic changed we not only saw white families move, but black families with the same economic etc. level as well. There was a lot of factors that led to the present promblems of today's Detroit and I still believe that Coleman Young's rhetoric and additude was the major infuence.

Can you cite a source that says "Black Bottom" was raciallly mixed? The entertainment district of Paradise Valley may have been, but I've never read anything credible to indicate the Black Bottom residential area was racially mixed in the mid 1900's.

Andrea Harp, (Wayne State website) in an article for "Coleman Young, A Life Remembered" states: "William Young settled his family on Detroit’s lower east side in an ethnically and racially mixed neighborhood known as Black Bottom."

And this was not in the mid 1900's this was in the early 1920's.

How old were you when you moved from Warwick?

I moved from Warwick when I was married in 1978. However, both my parents remained on Warwick until their deaths. My mother, the last of the family there, died in 2000.