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Old 04-30-2013, 07:48 AM
 
465 posts, read 867,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
Sure they will. The people who can most afford to move will. People have been doing it in NYC for 50 years.

I work with people who commute from both Toledo and Windsor. Its not that uncommon.
People in NYC have been commuting from foreign countries for 50 years? I'm not getting it.

Are you referring to people commuting from places like Jersey? That obviously isn't comparable to an international crossing, which requires checkpoints, special documentation, and the like. Jersey is as far from Manhattan as Brooklyn and Queens are from Manhattan.

And most Americans don't even have passports. They wouldn't even be able to make this crossing from Canada.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:49 AM
 
465 posts, read 867,715 times
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Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
For a city like Chicago, it does have a stupid cheap COL overall.

For $1,500 per month, you can probably get a decent apartment in one of the high rises downtown. Essentially, you're getting Manhattan on the cheap.
Chicago is nothing like Manhattan. I would say, with Chicago, you're geting the Midwest on the expensive, not Manhattan on the cheap.

I mean, how is Chicago similar to Manhattan? Just because they both are big cities with big buildings?
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:07 AM
 
2,210 posts, read 3,471,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Born View Post
People in NYC have been commuting from foreign countries for 50 years? I'm not getting it.

Are you referring to people commuting from places like Jersey? That obviously isn't comparable to an international crossing, which requires checkpoints, special documentation, and the like. Jersey is as far from Manhattan as Brooklyn and Queens are from Manhattan.

And most Americans don't even have passports. They wouldn't even be able to make this crossing from Canada.
No. People have been making uber-long commutes for a long time. My point got lost in the details.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 467,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Born View Post
Chicago is nothing like Manhattan. I would say, with Chicago, you're geting the Midwest on the expensive, not Manhattan on the cheap.

I mean, how is Chicago similar to Manhattan? Just because they both are big cities with big buildings?
I've actually found downtown Chicago to be similar on a smaller scale to manhattan, very vibrant parks, high retail, great bus and subway service,(wherelse in the Midwest is this?) heck, some of my NYC friends and European friends love Chicago and say it's better than other northeast cities like Boston and Philly. Having been to all three, NYC the most, chicago is similar to NYC on a smaller scale and better than other northeast cities like Boston, Philly etc. Nothing is truly like NYC in the U.S. but Chicago is a top 3 city in the country.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:37 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 12,690,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Born View Post
Chicago is nothing like Manhattan. I would say, with Chicago, you're geting the Midwest on the expensive, not Manhattan on the cheap.

I mean, how is Chicago similar to Manhattan? Just because they both are big cities with big buildings?
I take it you've never been outside of Michigan or Pennsylvania.

Either that or you harbor a vitriol hate for big cities.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:30 PM
 
615 posts, read 1,382,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Born View Post
Chicago is nothing like Manhattan. I would say, with Chicago, you're geting the Midwest on the expensive, not Manhattan on the cheap.

I mean, how is Chicago similar to Manhattan? Just because they both are big cities with big buildings?
Really, it is neither "Manhattan on the cheap" NOR "Midwest on the expensive".

Compared to Manhattan, Downtown Chicago has high-paying executive jobs at major corporate headquarters, universities, heavy mass transit, shopping, museums and other attractions - but all of these, Chicago has significantly less of than Manhattan (of course, more of these than Rockford, Moline or Detroit). Chicago and Manhattan both have a well-established gay village, but Chicago's stands out as being arguably being the only significant such community for about 800 miles, so it draws people with alternative lifestyles from throughout the Midwest.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
I take it you've never been outside of Michigan or Pennsylvania.

Either that or you harbor a vitriol hate for big cities.
Actually, I've lived in both NYC and Chicago, and love both.

But you claimed that Chicago is the same as Manhattan, which is really weird to me.

Chicago is more like a big Detroit than a small NYC. It has the same wide arterials, it was built around the same time period, and has a similar type of housing stock (bungalow belt, all those u-shaped apartment buildings, etc.) Chicago doesn't have many examples of Manhattan-style housing (tenements, brownstones, highrises without garages) etc.

Really the only similarity of housing stock would be both cities have lots of highrises, but NYC has like 10x as many highrises, and they are built totally differently. NYC has those white-brick buildings everywhere, and Chicago has a totally different highrise typology.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Ypsilanti
389 posts, read 467,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Born View Post
Actually, I've lived in both NYC and Chicago, and love both.

But you claimed that Chicago is the same as Manhattan, which is really weird to me.

Chicago is more like a big Detroit than a small NYC. It has the same wide arterials, it was built around the same time period, and has a similar type of housing stock (bungalow belt, all those u-shaped apartment buildings, etc.) Chicago doesn't have many examples of Manhattan-style housing (tenements, brownstones, highrises without garages) etc.

Really the only similarity of housing stock would be both cities have lots of highrises, but NYC has like 10x as many highrises, and they are built totally differently. NYC has those white-brick buildings everywhere, and Chicago has a totally different highrise typology.
On the northside of Chicago I saw housing similar to the nice areas of Brooklyn. Manhattan is so very vast, Chicago has the Mag Mile, multiply the Mag Mile by like 30(sq milage) and you have Manhattan to an extent lol. There are wide arterials in both Chicago, NYC and Detroit. The key difference is having great subway, bus, and taxi coverage. NYC is the best in the country in that regard, Chicago has great transit too. I can see the comparison to Detroit in parts of the southside, but definitely not near the downtown areas and northside, especially when you get into the feel and vibrancy of the cities.

It's just kind of odd to say Chicago is a bigger Detroit, because what does that say about cities like Boston and Philly in the Northeast specifically...

Last edited by weteath; 05-01-2013 at 01:13 PM..
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:02 PM
 
615 posts, read 1,382,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Born View Post
Actually, I've lived in both NYC and Chicago, and love both.

But you claimed that Chicago is the same as Manhattan, which is really weird to me.

Chicago is more like a big Detroit than a small NYC. It has the same wide arterials, it was built around the same time period, and has a similar type of housing stock (bungalow belt, all those u-shaped apartment buildings, etc.) Chicago doesn't have many examples of Manhattan-style housing (tenements, brownstones, highrises without garages) etc.

Really the only similarity of housing stock would be both cities have lots of highrises, but NYC has like 10x as many highrises, and they are built totally differently. NYC has those white-brick buildings everywhere, and Chicago has a totally different highrise typology.
Chicago grew very large in the latter half of the 19th century, the end of which saw Detroit as still a relatively small city. Detroit really boomed in the years 1910-1930, with the automobile industry.

Chicago has very dense development just about everywhere within 2 miles of the Lakeshore running several miles north and south of downtown. In that area, the houses that are not directly attached to the neighbor's house are built right up to it. I was astonished the first time I visited Chicago to see bay windows that were about an inch from their neighbor's brick wall!

Detroit is almost completely lacking in that kind of development. It has a small downtown that is mostly high-rise and with few residences. Surrounding Detroit's downtown are areas of food industry, railway infrastructure, stadiums, medical facilities, and, of course, the Detroit River. Beyond those, housing is either detached or in for form of apartment buildings with plenty of room around them.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:28 AM
 
465 posts, read 867,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 313 TUxedo View Post
Chicago grew very large in the latter half of the 19th century, the end of which saw Detroit as still a relatively small city. Detroit really boomed in the years 1910-1930, with the automobile industry.
Which means that Chicago and Detroit grew fastest within a few decades of each other, while NYC's biggest boom period was much earlier.

Chicago's biggest boom decade was from 1880-1890. Detroit's biggest boom decade was from 1900-1910. NYC's biggest boom decade was from 1830-1840.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313 TUxedo View Post
Chicago has very dense development just about everywhere within 2 miles of the Lakeshore running several miles north and south of downtown. In that area, the houses that are not directly attached to the neighbor's house are built right up to it. I was astonished the first time I visited Chicago to see bay windows that were about an inch from their neighbor's brick wall!
Right, but this is completely different from NYC, where attached housing is the norm. Chicago is almost completely detached housing, even in the densest parts along the lakefront, and NYC is mostly attached housing. Yes, Chicago is much denser than Detroit, but it is much less dense than NYC. In overall density, though, it's closer to Detroit than to NYC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 313 TUxedo View Post
Detroit is almost completely lacking in that kind of development. It has a small downtown that is mostly high-rise and with few residences. Surrounding Detroit's downtown are areas of food industry, railway infrastructure, stadiums, medical facilities, and, of course, the Detroit River. Beyond those, housing is either detached or in for form of apartment buildings with plenty of room around them.
Which is the exact same as Chicago, except less dense. Both cities are 99% detached housing. In contrast, NYC is mostly attached housing. And, like in Detroit, Chicago has alleys, apartment buildings with courtyards, and grass strips between the sidewalk and street. NYC has none of this.
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