Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr threatens to sell off DIA Art Collection (Detroit: crime, credit rating)

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

I will bet you a year-long self-imposed exile from this forum that not one single piece of art moves. Not. One. Laws are not inflexible and you seem to be taking a very severe, simplistic view of the situation anyhow--there is no way for you to be so certain. I'm basing my view on political realities; I don't think Snyder or other genuinely powerful people would let it happen, it would be a complete political disaster.

As for your other comment, metro Detroit actually has more millionaires per capita than all but a few cities. It's not near the backwater you characterize it as.

I'm not at all certain it will happen, I'm saying its his JOB to investigate whether its a possibility. And if the artwork is indeed listed as an asset of the city, a bankruptcy judge would be justified in liquidating it. My point is that arguing this as a political issue is moot -- it's a financial issue now.

METRO Detroit has a lot of millionaires. People on here talk about making Detroit an urban mecca for young professionals a la San Francisco. Notgonnahappen.com.

[jonnynonos]

You are acting like no one could exercise political muscle to influence a legal verdict, which is never the case. Smoke-filled rooms do exist.

No one in their right mind thinks Detroit is going to be the next San Francisco. Nevertheless dismantling its civic jewels would inarguably make things even worse.

While I don't think any young people are going to move to Detroit only for the DIA, I *absolutely* think that in aggragate with the DSO, stadiums, universities, new restaurants, music venues and nightlife, it is a huge plus for the city and, yes, could absolutely attract some of the grittier/more adventurous young people from other areas.

Right now you can sell Detroit to young people as a kind of beleagured jewel in the rough--an up and coming place that while down on its luck has glints of real optimism and has retained elements of world-class sophistication.

A place like Flint or Gary, Indiana, on the other hand, is perceived as essentially hopeless and offering absolutely nothing of value to potential transplants.

[jonnynonos]

Again, I am willing to bet you a six month or even year self-imposed ban that not one piece of artwork leaves the museum.

I don't know the exact legal mechanism that will be used to protect it, and neither do you, but rest assured, one will be used. It's not a "conspiracy theory;" as a matter of fact it's called not being hopelessly naive. In fact I was talking to a Detroit "power player" intimately familiar with the city's issues this weekend and when I breached the subject with him he waved his hand and said, "No way."

You, on the other hand, are buying right into Orr's scare/negotiating tactics.

You are wrong about Detroit. A lot of people are fascinated by it. It is still perceived as a "cool" place in some circles, and, among the edgier crowd, a place with potential.

You don't think Dan Gilbert is just throwing his money away, do you?

I was down in Harmony Park this weekend and the change is palpable. The situation is not without hope.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

You don't know how it can be justified, but it magically will. That's great logic there. I know how bankruptcy proceedings work, and assets are used to satisfy debts. You do understand that the creditors aren't going to say "Aw, shucks. You can just keep those billions of dollars we borrowed. We're good!"

Oooohhh....well if we have it on authority from your "power player" then I'm sure it's a done deal.

Yeah, people are fascinated by ruins. It might have potential for ruin porn and scrap metal, but that's about it.

I think Dan Gilbert is feeding his oversized ego.

[MS313]

I just think the people here and elsewhere who are all ginned up about Detroit's "comeback" are delusional. It's more entertaining than anything else. They've obviously never been to an actual cosmopolitan or desirable city to live in because they would see that Detroit is about a thousand years behind.

lol naw man. NOBODY gets that upset over someone thinking Detroit is "coming back". You are passionate in bashing Detroit. You have a flaming hate for Detroit that runs so deep in your bones that you don't even realize it. If a few people hoping Detroit comes back actually UPSETS you and inspires you to write paragraphs of negative sh*t about Detroit, you have some serious issues my friend. You don't even live IN Detroit so why in the hell do you care if people are thinking it's coming back in the first place???

Hollywood of the North!

That's fantastic! Thanks for providing me with a good laugh today.

Is Detroit the next Hollywood? Local film industry veteran offers perspective | MLive.com
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[Mathguy]

Years and years in deep denial with mounting debts and now that the art collection is in trouble people get upset?

This might be just the sort of wake-up call that people need to realize the gravity of the situation.

It's almost like some sort of hoarders or intervention show.....deep denial of reality.

[Mathguy]

The alternative that some people mentioned was bankrutpcy.

However, if you go that route there could be some really harsh side-effects.

It's kinda like being bit on the foot by a cobra and having to chop your foot off or die of the venom, neither is attractive.

It might come down to selling off the art or further cutting city jobs and services and pensions.

I personally wonder if Detroit embraced a new urban-planning type revival like a "green city" with more urban gardens, solar etc. if that might be a good move. I recall a town wiped out by tornado that is going that route with some successes.

At some point I think you just take some bold steps into the future instead of clinging to the past.

[maclock]

Originally Posted by MaryleeII

Well, if the DIA is such an attraction to "Ivy Leaguers", then, where are they? Anyone with half a brain cleared out years ago. I doubt they would come back for an art museum, regardless of how great it is! When one is terrified to empty the trash, and carries a gun to go to and from their car, who cares about art?

Are you familiar with Abram Maslov and the Maslov hierarchy of needs scale? People put basic survival first, then socialization, affiliation needs, etc. In other words, who cares about an art museum when they're afraid to sleep in their beds at night? And that is NOT an exaggeration. Before I moved (escaped) from Detroit, my family would take turns sleeping so one was always on watch. No, Detroit is NOT going to attract quality, educated residents with an art museum if they can't offer basic safety! Get real!

^^^
This.

[maclock]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

One, Midtown is not that dangerous.

Two, my post is about keeping the area as attractive a destination as possible.

If you feel the situation is totally hopeless, a lot of people disagree with you.

If by a lot of people, you mean a handful of pretentious art lovers, then you might be right.

Art is of marginal interest to people when the schools are generally terrible, the infrastructure is crumbling, the urban fabric is torn apart, the cops don't come, the ambulances are broken down, the streets are dangerous, etc. The city is broke, broken and dysfunctional. No art collections, no matter how impressive, are going to either fix or trump the outrageous problems facing Detroit. If the art can cover the tab, then sell it to pay off your bills and start over again.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Years and years in deep denial with mounting debts and now that the art collection is in trouble people get upset?

This might be just the sort of wake-up call that people need to realize the gravity of the situation.

It's almost like some sort of hoarders or intervention show.....deep denial of reality.

As Bernie Madoff said, "the federal government is a Ponzi scheme."

Our finances on a federal level in the near long term are far more dismal than Detroit's.

Not an excuse, the mismanagement is atrocious and you could not find a worse governing body than the city council. Unfortunately, however, when everyone who possibly can leaves, including all of the industry, and there is no tax base, you go into debt, whether you are smart or stupid.

It is what it is.

And they won't sell the art collection. And, again, I am willing to bet a year-long self-imposed ban from the forum.

So put your money where your mouth is stop the gratuitious naval gazing.