Should I come to Detroit (Dearborn, Memphis: job, housing, crime)

[Daniel_T]

Thanks for sharing that. That really puts everything into perspective. I figured corruption has something to do with the way Detroit is going. It's too bad. I really think Detroit could be a great place to live is everyone took responsibility and really focused on reviving the city instead of playing the name game.

Who knows, maybe in the coming decades, Detroit will finally see major redevelopment. Maybe the corrupt officials could be replaced with people that get the job done. These area all "fantasies" I imagine. Thanks again for the info. I appreciate it very much.


Daniel

[MamaGecko]

I didn't really touch on the current economic issues, which you asked about... yes, it is primarily due to the auto companies. The MI economy is built on the auto companies. Not just the Big 3, but there's all the Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 suppliers. All the tool and die shops that build tooling for the auto makers & suppliers. All the trucking that brings supplies into the factories. Then take it a step further... all the diners, McDonalds, etc., that provide lunch for the workers. All the myriad of small shops that provide goods and services for the workers. For every factory that closes, there's also gas stations, grocery stores, clothing stores, hair salons, etc. that serviced the people that worked there.

Ford is not likely to survive its turnaround plan. GM isn't doing much better. Chrysler was the best of the three, but with the sale there's a good chance the new owners will sell it piecemeal or take it through bankruptcy to strip the union contracts. Either way, a whole lot of union workers will be left with nothing.

Michigan has high unemployment, a declining population, and a political and economic environment that is unfriendly to business. The governor's turnaround plan centers on increasing education and attracting business via an educated populace. A couple problems with that... first, MI is very blue collar, with the accompanying anti-education bias. It will take years to counter that. Second, increasing standards in the K-12 will take years. To graduate a highly educated person at the high school level takes 12 years... you can't do it in just a couple. The base isn't there to build on. Third, you can't educate people, then have them sit around waiting for the jobs to come. If there are no jobs, the people will leave the state to find work. You have to bring in the jobs first.

So, speaking to MI broadly, rather than Detroit in particular, the state is in bad shape now, but it is likely to get worse.

You're young, you have time. My suggestion... Go to a big city if you want. Say Chicago. Great schools. Get a good education. Get a good job. Save some $. In five years, you'll be able to buy any piece of land you want in MI for next to nothing. It is a beatiful state. Lots of lakes, the Irish Hills area is georgeous, northern MI is beautiful and actually has nice weather in July and August (lol). Spend five years planning. Then invest some $ in some land. It's a gamble... but Pennsylvania came back after the loss of the steel industry. MI can do it too. It just may take 15 to 20 years.

[Daniel_T]

You also mentioned in your post about Chicago and Cleveland. I have never felt like I would like Chicago. Something about it turns me off. don't know what it is.

I have thought about cleveland, but it seems like it is going through the same problems as Detroit, but to a lesser extent. I really don't want to live in a city with the types of problems facing Detroit, but I feel connected to the city. One of my neighbors who is from Toledo, was telling me that the entire region of Southeast Michigan, and the major cities of Ohio were nasty. I asked here about Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, and Toledo. Heard all bad things.

Daniel True

[MamaGecko]

Of the cities you mentioned, Detroit is definately the worst of the bunch. The Ohio cities are typical northern industrial cities. Define "nasty." They all have typical northern problems... pollution, crime, etc. But they have much more diverse economies that Detroit. Lots of positives to them. Toledo & Cleveland have some great museums, and the shoreline, Toledo has Tony Pacos (ask your neighbor about Tony Pacos!), the Mud Hens... lots of character to that city. Columbus has Ohio State, don't know much about it other than that. Cleveland has successfully revitalized it's downtown. Great success story. Cincinnati has some bad parts, but overall it is a beautiful city... surrounded by hills, across the river is Covington KY with a great waterfront, lots of shops, an outdoor mall area, great museums, close drive to eastern KY & mammouth caves, etc.

Chicago is wonderful. Michigan Ave is known as the Magnificant Mile, Rush Street is fabulous. There's the Navy Pier, the waterfront area with tons of restaurants and shops, the water taxis to the museums. Its the home of Second City, lots of Broadway shows. Tons of commerce, Chicago Mercantile.

You need to define what exactly you are looking for. First, though, you should be thinking about the best college you can get into, because that's the engine that will drive the rest of your life.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by MamaGecko

That's an ok area. Not great, but not bad. You'd be better off in Plymouth, Northville, Wixom, Walled Lake (tons of cheap apts in Wixom/Walled Lake), western side of Livonia, more north & northwest in Farmington Hills. And yes, if you look at a map, those are all further away from a city. Think about that.

Note that the apartments in Wixom/Walled Lake are almost all owned by the same management company and it isn't real pet friendly last I looked. It's a shame because they had the best apartment values.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Daniel_T

I am looking at an apartment in Farmington Hills near Middlebelt Road south of 10 Mile Road. Is that a nice area?

It should be pretty decent. Most of Farmington Hills is pretty good except for the one square mile block on the very southeast corner (between Inkster, Middlebelt, 9 Mile, and 8 Mile); it just seems pretty seedy to me.

Of course, I'm not sure what those apartments would be like. It's possible that they could be full of drugs and crime since apartments, in general, cater to people with low incomes. As with any apartment, you should come visit a couple times and different times of the day and check for noise and observe the types of people walking in and out.

Also, you might want to go look at Pontiac Trail and Beck at those Wixom/Walled Lake Apartmetns (Golden Gate, The Springs, etc.). Those places have the same management company and seem to have lower rents, though I can't say they're pet friendly.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by MamaGecko

Michigan has high unemployment, a declining population, and a political and economic environment that is unfriendly to business. The governor's turnaround plan centers on increasing education and attracting business via an educated populace. A couple problems with that... first, MI is very blue collar, with the accompanying anti-education bias. It will take years to counter that. Second, increasing standards in the K-12 will take years. To graduate a highly educated person at the high school level takes 12 years... you can't do it in just a couple. The base isn't there to build on. Third, you can't educate people, then have them sit around waiting for the jobs to come. If there are no jobs, the people will leave the state to find work. You have to bring in the jobs first.

I don't buy this notion that Michigan is anti-education. The state has two first-rate universities in the University of Michigan and Michigan State. U of M is considered a "public ivy" and has business and law schools that rank in the nation's top 10. Wayne State is a Research I class university with over 10,000 graduate and professional students including one of the nation's largest medical schools, and the state also has a couple other decent second-tier public universities such as Eastern Michigan. The state is also home to a couple private colleges, such as Kalamazoo College and Hillsdale.

In contrast, however, the state's economic policies might be anti-economic growth, which results in few new industries and thus in graduates fleeing the state. However, that doesn't make the state anti-education, at least I don't think so.

[RedWingsFan]

Michigan is not anti-education. That's nuts. They have many great school districts and some of the better colleges in the country. Not a chance they are anti-education...

[MamaGecko]

I'm not talking about the R1 universities, I'm referring to the K-12 schools.

State wide, MI nowhere near the top in terms of students graduating in college-prep programs, students actually going onto four year institutions, and students going onto college at all.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ewp_08_t12.htm

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank05.htm

This is why Granholm made it her platform to increase standards, increase the number of students graduating, increase the number of students attending college, and increase the number of students going into 4 year institutions. Geez, you can get this info directly from the state of mi website... there's all the reports that Granholm had commissioned, detailing the situation with the MI schools.

Growing up in rural MI, I was one of *FOUR* students in a 250 graduating class that went onto a four year university. Farmers don't need degrees. My husband, growing up in a blue collar Detroit suburb, experienced something similar, and was actually ostrasized by most of his high school friends when he went onto college. Seems if you go to work on an assembly line in a UAW factory (like your father and your grandfather), you don't need a degree, either... and in that case you rather resent those who get degrees because they may become management.

Yes, there are some suburbs with high achieving schools. Most MI schools are average, at best. Parental support is not there.

[Daniel_T]

I found this great video of CNBC about the automakers and some other companies pulling out of Detroit. I thought it was great. Can anyone watch it and give me their feedback. Thanks.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/Money.htm?...0top%20ten&fg=

Daniel True