Should I come to Detroit (Livonia, Farmington Hills: low income, sale, hair salon)

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Daniel_T

Hey everyone, I have decided that I will apply to Wayne State University. No matter how much bad I hear about Detroit, I still want to come. I am going to go ahead and see if i can get admitted to Wayne State. I believe by staying in the city for a few years, will give me the opportunity to really decide on whether or not I want to stay in Detroit. Thanks again everyone for your responses.

Last I checked, Wayne State was a Research I class university and it had over 10,000 graduate students. Sadly, Wayne State does not have an NCAA I football team, so it has a very low national profile, decreasing the value of its degrees somewhat. Most people who live outside the state of Michigan will have never heard of Wayne State University.

Overall, I would characterize it as being a second class university, above Eastern Michigan University but below the University of Michigan and Michigan State. The faculty and the quality of its scholarship and research place it on par with Michigan State (and above Eastern), and the real scientific and engineering research does occur and the faculty seek out research grants and publish papers and maintain laboratories. However, the quality of Wayne State's students and perhaps the rigor of the instruction would be closer to the level of my perception of that of Western Michigan University (and below or on par with that of Eastern). Since it doesn't attract the best students (who are going to U of M, MSU, or Kalamazoo College), you might find that the classes are not challenging enough, which is bad because you do want to be pushed so that you can increase your ability. It's nice to be able to get "easy A's", but it's also important to be pushed so that you have to actually improve your abilities. Overall, I would say that if Wayne State were located in, say, Grand Rapids instead of Detroit, it would attract better students and it would be on par with Michigan State University.

One huge factor to consider, especially if you are young (under 22) and plan to be a full-time student and if you don't plan to live with your folks and commute to campus or if you won't be holding a full-time lower middle class job, is that it can be hard to develop a social life at Wayne State. In contrast, it would be much easier if you were living in a dorm at one of the other schools. Don't discount the value of your social life and social development; it is very important and it's also a key part of the college experience. Wayne State tends to have an older student popluation (working adults) which means that they go home to their families and spend free time with their families and/or they work at their jobs. Also, the people you will meet will be scattered across the entire metropolitain region and it's a drag to have to drive 20 miles just to meet a friend.

Also, it would be much better to live in the dorms at the other schools and the areas surrounding those campuses are much nicer. (It's been about a decade, but last I looked, Wayne State didn't have much to offer in the way of undergraduate student housing.) Let's face it, Wayne State is surrounded by a ghetto and Detroit's downtown is pretty pathetic. (It's not like going to college in the middle of Chicago or New York City.) If you don't have a car, there's almost nothing to do within walking distance off campus.

I think that Wayne State is good for certain people in the right circumstances (working students with decent jobs, older students with families, those saving money on housing costs by living at home, those who were offered full-tuition merit scholarships), but otherwise you should try to go someplace else.

If you're coming from out-of-state and won't be getting in-state tuition, I'd cross Michigan schools off the list simply because the Michigan economy is bad unless you were able to get into the University of Michigan or Kalamazoo College and those two are far better than any other schools you could gain admission to (highly doubtful). I say this because it's going to be much easier to conduct a job search if you live in the state and area where you're attending school. If you're planning to attend a college outside of a state where you have in-state tuition, I'd suggest choosing a state you'd like to live in (one with a growing economy so it'll be easier to get a job) and then perhaps just moving to that state and establishing legal domicile there for a year in order to get in-state tuition and then attending your target school.

Also, definitely visit the campus and the city of any college or univeristy before you make a decision. It's very important!

[HappinessFaerie]

Daniel, I've just moved away from the Detroit area after living there for 20 (adult) years. I've read through all the responses you've gotten, and I just want to add a couple of additional things that you should be aware of.

When your taxi is driving you from the airport to your downtown hotel (I presume your staying downtown), take a good look out the window. You will be passing not just the occasional burned out neighborhood, but mile after mile after mile of boarded up and burned out residential and commercial buildings. When you see what looks like a decent house online at a cheap price, it is going to be surrounded by boarded up and burned out buildings. Yes, there are a few nice neighborhoods... they are surrounding by neighborhoods filled with boarded up and burned out buildings.

You've asked a couple of times about tours... if you want a tour, go to Chicago or New York. The only time I've ever heard of a tour in Detroit was during major conventions, like the Auto Show. Tourists don't come to Detroit.

Always have $50 cash on you. Always. If you are mugged, you want to have cash to give them. If you're mugged and you have no cash to give them, you'll likely be shot. And yes, I've known it to happen.

Remember, when you see an area with police every ten feet, it is because there NEEDS to be police every ten feet. That does NOT mean it is a safe area. Chicago's MI Ave and Rush St. don't need to have a cop stationed every ten feet. Detroit's Greektown (all two blocks of it) does. The two block strip by WSU, the Fox, DIA, etc. does (of course, it's the Cass Corridor!).

You are, like most 17 year olds, going to do what you want, no matter what people tell you. If you want to go, go. You'd be better off in Chicago, though. Chicago actually has an economy. It's much safer, has schools that are top in the nation (go to Wayne State and no one outside of MI will have heard of it; people in other states will likely write it off as a 3rd tier school).

If you want a bit of truly local flavor, go to the Detroit Free Press website (freep.com) and explore the forums there. There's been a lot of articles lately about how (or if it is even possible) to revitalize Detroit, and a lot of activity in the forums. You'll start to get a feel for the political history of the city, which is important in understanding why it is the way it is, and why it is unlikely to change.

[Guardian]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

If you don't have a car, there's almost nothing to do within walking distance off campus.

It's not the best but it gets you around.

Originally Posted by HappinessFaerie

The only time I've ever heard of a tour in Detroit was during major conventions, like the Auto Show.

http://www.preservationwayne.org/tours.php

[electric_lady]

Detroit, like any other city, has its problems. It also has its good things too. My one complaint about it, really, is that there's very minimal walking opportunities. Downtown Detroit doesn't have the shopping and nightlife that many of my favorite cities do. It's not as safe to walk around worry free. That is to say, there's really no "strip" or number of "strips" to hang out on. There's plenty of bars, but they're not as close as they could be. You have to have a car in Detroit, and the entire metro area. The closest thing to a "strip" we have is Greektown, with casinos and bars and restaurants, but the rest of the city is largely abandoned.
It's not a bad place to live if you really like music, you can choose from any number of concerts nightly. But as far as quality of life, check out Royal Oak/Ferndale area. Close to town, safer and lots to do.
But if you have a love affair with Detroit, I think you should visit. I would suggest summer time. The winters here are miserable, and coming from AZ, they will probably take their toll on you.

[goodriddance7]

Pardon me, but Aren't we hearing about a move to place police on city busses due to the assults and muggings going on on them? Get on a city bus and your surrounded by lowlifes and ex cons so don't go feeling comforted by a bussload of people. They won't help you if your targeted by the criminals.

[MittenDweller82]

Like any large city, we can't place ALL the blame on the criminals...what I would think would be the m a y o r. Well, yes there has been a great deal of wars between the subs and det, but Detroits mayor seperates them almost seemingly. No i've never been racisit. The city has great potential, although if you've ever traveled anywhere in the U.S. and mention you live near the city they ask you if you seen a murder or rape, etc. I used to work for Marriott in Novi, and when people would fly in for meetings they would ask how far eastcan they go on 8 mile before packing a gun in the rental car. No disrespect here, but as long as the mayor shines a reputation of someone who doesn't care about his city, it will continue to crumble and become even more corrupt (if thats even possible). Look at NYC, it took almost 10 years to rid the city of most of its gang activity, when Rudy G. Took office. Thats all detroit really needs, is someone who is serious about change, and does it. Peace-

[Daniel_T]

Hey everyone, I have some more questions about Detroit. This time the suburbs.

What are some of the nice suburbs? Some that have fairly decent rents.

I am looking at an apartment in Farmington Hills near Middlebelt Road south of 10 Mile Road. Is that a nice area?


Appreciate all answers.


Daniel True

[MamaGecko]

That's an ok area. Not great, but not bad. You'd be better off in Plymouth, Northville, Wixom, Walled Lake (tons of cheap apts in Wixom/Walled Lake), western side of Livonia, more north & northwest in Farmington Hills. And yes, if you look at a map, those are all further away from a city. Think about that.

Or Birmingham would be good, a bit more expensive, but a lot more going on for a young person.

More importantly, Michigan is in dire straits right now, and it's going to get worse. Daimler is going to sell off Chrysler, and if the new owner is private equity, they will likely find a way to strip out the union contracts, retirement and health care benefits (via bankruptcy or some other method), then all those workers will be left with nothing. Much like what is happening with Delphi, only worse. Detroit has something like a 900 million deficit, and the city just lost a lawsuit and owes the suburbs 25 million for overbilling on water. Wayne County has lost 19,000 people from 2005 to 2006 (the only places that lost more people were the areas devastated by Katrina), and those figures were computed before the massive buyouts from the automakers and other recent layoffs. The state is facing a huge deficit. The governer's answer to the state's economic crisis is to raise taxes... raise taxes when huge numbers are out of work, forced into early retirement, or have had their wages cut in half (Delphi).

Michigan is beautiful, but it is in a one state recession, moving into a one state depression. It is not a place to start your life. Seriously. Look at Chicago... go to school there, work there, and you'll still be close enough to drive into MI and vacation, and the west side of the state is much nicer (beaches, dunes, hilly, Grand Rapids has a nicer and safer downtown area) than the Detroit metro.

Or Ohio... Like the joke goes, What's the definition of Detroit?



Cleveland without all the glitter!

[Daniel_T]

Darn, I am really looking forward to moving to Metro Detroit, but I guess I am going to really reconsider. What exactly is wrong with Farmington Hills? I really wish something could be done to save the city from ruin. I wonder what's going to happen in maybe the next hundred years, when Detroit's pop. reaches ZERO. What will life in Motown be like then?

Just some questions, I have always wondered why Michigan (Specifically Detroit) has had such a rough economy? I know it can't be just because of the motor companies? It doesn't seem that city leaders are doing much to fix the city? What, do the want Detroit to crumble?

I also watched a DVD about Detroit, and it said that another reason the city has no funding, is because the state of Michigan will not give money to the city. They've got this attitude in which they believe Detroit should be on it's own and fix itself. No city can do that without state and federal help!!!

What do you think should be done to save Detroit? What would need to happen? Thanks and I really appreciate your feedback.


Daniel True

[MamaGecko]

There's nothing *wrong* with Farmington Hills. It covers a large area, and the Middlebelt/10 Mile area is closer to some of the problems than the northwestern corner of Farmington Hills. The problems being primarily crime.

What is wrong with Detroit would fill several books, and goes back a century. Much of it is also controversial (ie, deals with racial issues). I'll try to give you the condensed version.

Detroit's early history is very similar to other northern cities like Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc. Where it starts to differ is that it became a "fixed boundary" city very early on (before the turn of the century, if I recall correctly). Other cities were allowed to annex, and are still annexing suburbs today. Detroit was able to annex during the 1800s, but once the near suburbs incorporated, Detroit was legally prevented from annexing them.

In the early part of the 20th century, the city boomed due to the auto industry. Many southern blacks moved north to take jobs in the factories. Detroit became a racially mixed city... but no different than other northern industrialized cities. There was segregation, but the city itself was thriving.

Everyone knows about the 67 riots... but there were riots in the late 40s too, and that's when the so-called "white-flight" started. Detroit's population started its decline in the 50s, the population decline continued in the 60s, but after the 67 riots, the trickle became a flood and there was a massive exodus of people out of the city (mostly whites, but well-off blacks left, too. No one likes to live in fear of their life.).

This exodus of people, and subsequent decline in property values, decimated the tax base of the city (many businesses also left during this time period). Without the ability to annex (which saved other cities during similar periods), Detroit had no way of recapturing that tax base.

In 73 Detroit's first black mayor was elected, Coleman Young. Young was very devisive... he made huge changes to the police force, played racial politics... under his regime the already high crime rate skyrocketed, but he was also responsible for bringing several revitalization projects into the city, like the Renaissance Center and the Poletown plant (neither of which brought the economic benefits to the area that they were supposed to).

Things haven't really improved. After Young's 20 some odd years in office, Archer was elected, and he was actually a competent mayor. Some progress was made during his regime in terms of reducing crime. Now the mayor is Kwame Kilpatrick, whose administration has had many charges of graft and corruption and worse.

That is a brief history, but it doesn't begin to touch the social and political issues... Detroit HAS been given massive amounts of state and federal money. It is wasted away in graft and corruption. For many years, due in large part to Coleman Young's racial politics, white suburbanites felt unwelcome in the city (that's putting it mildly). Couple that with the extremely high crime rate in the city, the high number of city residents on welfare, and do you really wonder why suburbanites don't want to throw their tax money into the city? There's an annual volunteer activity where suburbanites go into Detroit to help clean up the city. The residents actually SIT OUT ON THEIR PORCHES AND WATCH!

Michigan, for better or worse, is a lifetime welfare state. The governor has vetoed efforts to put a cap on welfare benefits. Consider how that effects the motivation of people, both those who are on welfare and are able bodied, and the taxpayers who are working hard to support their own families in a difficult economy.

And EVERYTHING turns into a racial issue in Detroit. The city was talking about closing its zoo due to its massive city budgetary problems. A volunteer group offered to take over the operations of the zoo, and the (black) Detroit city council accused them of wanting to take it over for racial reasons. When that flap cooled off, the city council then demanded to be PAID for the priviledge of letting the group operate the zoo. Unbelievable. The group was going to keep the zoo open and relieve the city of the large sum of money that it cost to operate, and the City Council wanted to be paid on top of it. This is what happens when people try to help Detroit.

I could go on, but I think that's enough to give you a bit of the picture as to why the suburbanites and outstaters are increasingly unwilling to throw money into the city. It just doesn't work. And it won't work. The only way to get it to work is to (1) reduce the crime to a reasonable level, (2) bulldoze *all* abandoned houses and buildings, (3) have people in the community actually begin to take responsibility for their own community (maintain their houses, keep their property clean, etc.). If those things were to happen, the development would follow, because land prices are next to nothing in the city. But I don't think those things that can happen, because pretty much the only people left in the city are the ones who don't care.

Oh, and here's a link you might be interested in... it's a tour of Detroit. Very accurate, and sad. http://www.detroityes.com/Default.htm