Looking for a suburb of Detroit - good place to raise kids, semi-upscale but not snobby (Warren: 2014, neighborhoods)

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by lemonlime22

Interesting thread. Noticed a couple "Farmington schools are good, and Livonia are just average" comments.

FWIW, I looked at some rankings on GreatSchools.org. Scores are out of 10:

Livonia Stevenson 9
Farmington H.S. 9
Northville 10
Farmington Harrison 7 (that was a shock to me)
Novi High School 10
West Bloomfield H.S. 9

There is not the huge gulf in quality as some make it seem.

Stevenson is a cut above the other two Livonia high schools.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Using data pulled from City-Data archives, here are the 2013 estimated median household incomes for the cities mentioned in the previous few posts:

Bloomfield Hills - $151,596
Franklin - $142,408
Huntington Woods - $115,636
Grosse Pointe Shores - $113,075
Bloomfield Township - $112,783
Grosse Pointe Farms - $105,339
Birmingham - $101,171
West Bloomfield Township - $99,501
Grosse Pointe - $98,011
Grosse Pointe Park - $91,834
Northville - $87,608
Grosse Pointe Woods - $85,649
Novi - $82,072

I am surprised about the relative wealth of West Bloomfield. Nobody ever talks about West Bloomfield as one of the best suburbs of Detroit. Probably because it is too "diverse".

[MS313]

Originally Posted by usroute10

I am surprised about the relative wealth of West Bloomfield. Nobody ever talks about West Bloomfield as one of the best suburbs of Detroit. Probably because it is too "diverse".

Alot of blacks talk about it. Some say it's the new Southfield (or will be) as far as diversity goes.

[animatedmartian]

A lot of Jewish people in West Bloomfield. There's also a lot of Chaldeans, Blacks, and an increasing number of Asian-Indians. So it does have a new Southfield feel to it.

The problem is there's nothing remotely identifiable about West Bloomfield. It's complete sprawling subdivisions and two-lane roads. There's no famous historical mansions or significant cultural institutions like the Grosse Pointes or Bloomfield Hills. No vibrant downtown like Birmingham or Northville and not even a major shopping or business center like Troy or Novi. There's not even really any major parks aside from a number of golf courses.

It seems like the sort of suburb that people choose when they aren't picky about nearby amenities.

[belleislerunner]

Southfield is not diverse. It is over 70% black and growing. Think of it as North Detroit.

About 20 years ago (2000) the News and Free Press ran articles about how Southfield was diverse because it was getting to the 50/50 black white/mix - but it was really just white flight. It is now growing closer to 80% black.

Diversity is when you maintain a mix (e.g. 30% white, 30% Asian, 30% black) and it maintains that level for years.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by usroute10

I am surprised about the relative wealth of West Bloomfield. Nobody ever talks about West Bloomfield as one of the best suburbs of Detroit. Probably because it is too "diverse".

West Bloomfield is hardly one of the best suburbs. It's schools are only decent, taxes are high, and the community is somewhat in relative decline.

Yes, it's still an upper middle class suburb, and has high incomes, but it has fallen from 20 years ago, when people were saying it would surpass Bloomfield/Birmingham.

[Geo-Aggie]

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

Southfield is not diverse. It is over 70% black and growing. Think of it as North Detroit.

About 20 years ago (2000) the News and Free Press ran articles about how Southfield was diverse because it was getting to the 50/50 black white/mix - but it was really just white flight. It is now growing closer to 80% black.

Diversity is when you maintain a mix (e.g. 30% white, 30% Asian, 30% black) and it maintains that level for years.

Exactly. Calling Southfield or Oak Park "diverse" is not accurate. They are regions of white flight. Likewise calling West Bloomfield diverse is not very accurate either. The place is 83% white with 8% Asian and 5% black population. It's about as diverse as Sterling Heights . Realistically, Metro Detroit has no communities with significant diversity. Towns like Warren and Farmington Hills are trending toward diverse and could be considered this by the next census, as long as white flight doesn't take hold of these towns as well, but towns which are 70% black (Southfield, Oak Park) or 80% white (West Bloomfield, Sterling Heights) are not diverse - they're just slightly less homogeneous than Virginia Park or Clawson.

[MS313]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Exactly. Calling Southfield or Oak Park "diverse" is not accurate. They are regions of white flight. Likewise calling West Bloomfield diverse is not very accurate either. The place is 83% white with 8% Asian and 5% black population. It's about as diverse as Sterling Heights . Realistically, Metro Detroit has no communities with significant diversity. Towns like Warren and Farmington Hills are trending toward diverse and could be considered this by the next census, as long as white flight doesn't take hold of these towns as well, but towns which are 70% black (Southfield, Oak Park) or 80% white (West Bloomfield, Sterling Heights) are not diverse - they're just slightly less homogeneous than Virginia Park or Clawson.

I didn't know Southfield was THAT black. But what I meant by "diverse" was just more black people moving making West Bloomfield have a good mixture like Southfield USED to have in the 2000's. In the past 10 years, Southfield has become the mecca for middle class blacks in the region and blacks all across the state know it. It is now a mega Rosedale Park or something. Oak Park is only 57% black, 37% white. I think Oak Park, Farmington Hills, Redford, Harper Woods, and Eastpointe are now quickly gaining black populations and is slowly becoming the Southfield of the 2000's.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

Exactly. Calling Southfield or Oak Park "diverse" is not accurate. They are regions of white flight. Likewise calling West Bloomfield diverse is not very accurate either. The place is 83% white with 8% Asian and 5% black population. It's about as diverse as Sterling Heights . Realistically, Metro Detroit has no communities with significant diversity. Towns like Warren and Farmington Hills are trending toward diverse and could be considered this by the next census, as long as white flight doesn't take hold of these towns as well, but towns which are 70% black (Southfield, Oak Park) or 80% white (West Bloomfield, Sterling Heights) are not diverse - they're just slightly less homogeneous than Virginia Park or Clawson.

WEST BLOOMFIELD
Concerning West Bloomfield's 83% white population, please be aware that Jewish and Middle Eastern people are considered "WHITE" by the US Census. The WHITE population of West Bloomfield has a very, very large percentage of Jewish and Middle Eastern people. In fact, the Jewish Vocational Service of Metro Detroit is in West Bloomfield, and the original Holocaust Memorial Museum (the 1st in the country) was located in West Bloomfield.

STERLING HEIGHTS
Same goes for Sterling Heights - the city has A TON of Middle Eastern people (no Jewish though). Just drive along the commercial corridors of Sterling Heights and northern Warren - half the restaurants along those streets are Middle Eastern.

DIVERSITY
You can't just look at the census numbers. Also, there are several communities that have a lot of diversity - Southwest Detroit (black, white, Mexican, Arab) , Hamtramck (black, white hipster/artist, Eastern European, Arab, Bangladesh), the non-sexy downriver suburbs of River Rouge, Melvindale, Lincoln Park, and Allen Park (black, white, Mexican), Pontiac (black, white, Puerto Rican), Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, and I guess parts of Warren.

OAK PARK
Oak Park is still somewhat diverse because of the large Hasidic Jewish community that exists there, this community is centered about 10 Mile and Greenfield Road.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie

ELikewise calling West Bloomfield diverse is not very accurate either. The place is 83% white with 8% Asian and 5% black population. It's about as diverse as Sterling Heights .

It depends. West Bloomfield has majority-minority schools, and even a majority-black school. The district will probably be majority black within 15 years or so.

So, yeah, WB overall isn't super-diverse, but that's because there are tons of older white people. The school-age population is ultra diverse.

Also "white" in the Census includes Jews, Chaldeans and Lebanese. WB has HUGE populations of all three. Probably the majority of whites in WB are either Jewish or Middle Eastern.

And Sterling Heights is pretty diverse too. A HUGE proportion of the whites in Sterling Heights are Iraqi refugees. There's also a huge Chaldean population, as well as folks from all over the Middle East.