Pictures of Decay (Detroit, Eastpointe, Eastwood: to rent, crime, home builders)
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This is a common myth. In fact, whites sold/rented their homes to blacks, and occupancy levels did not decline. White areas changed from 100% occupied-by-whites to 100% occupied-by-blacks (over time). It is the subsequent black flight that has caused abandonment.
That defies basic mathematics. Detroit’s population peaked at around 2 million in 1950. In 1950 there were probably around 300,000 AA. That means that there were approximately 1.7 MILLION whites. Detroit AA population peaked at 790,000, in 2002-3 at the same time the white population declined to about 110,000. Now, basic mathematical aptitude tells me that white flight resulted in more housing than people. Its the phenomenon of more housing than people which created the abandonment and decay, even if blacks did move into dwellings eventually, they could not occupy all the dwellings simultaneously (basic logic). The abandoned dwellings often became rental properties for people who lived in the burbs. Hence, blacks who were renters simply moved from one rental to the other. The economic law of supply and demand was at work. White flight meant that there was more supply (of housing) than demand, which depressed property values and rents. With rents so low, landlords did not put much into their properties because it would result in a loss. What happens when you don't keep up your property.....it degrades and decays through entropy.
The only myth at work here is the myth that economic laws of supply and demand were not impacted by white flight. The oversupply of housing that resulted from white flight depressed the value of housing in the city to the degree that it fermented most of the decay that is witnessed.
Indentured Servant, I don't know what else to say. You and your descendants can go on believing that you are in some way disadvantaged by your skin color. I and my descendants will continue to believe that we are all equal and that skin color has no significance.
If one actually believes that birth “Resets” the race of life by providing those that are born no advantages or disadvantages in the race of life, then such an individual is either lacking education and or integrity.
Good observations detwahDJ. I've avoiding posting in this thread since it took a wild, off-topic turn. Thanks for bringing it back on course.
It's tempting to respond to those posts. I've learned not to respond to trollish content.
Quote:
Indentured Servent is correct that deindustrialization has left many buildings abandoned, which over time became blighted. Some of those buildings are currently being repurposed as lofts or art studios or for other novel uses.
The Russell for instance has many tenants each paying a relatively small amount for a small space. How can this arrangement work out? Could other such building have hundreds of tenants, startup businesses, living spaces, etc all mixed together and be viable? Do zoning laws impede this sort of thing?
I recall a similar bldg on Gratiot across from Eastern Market. Bing-maps shows it still there. Also a smaller bldg, not a highrise, on Cass where some Cass Corridor Artists worked.
I read here that the term "cass corridor" has a negative connotation - I don't get it.
That defies basic mathematics. Detroit’s population peaked at around 2 million in 1950. In 1950 there were probably around 300,000 AA. That means that there were approximately 1.7 MILLION whites. Detroit AA population peaked at 790,000, in 2002-3 at the same time the white population declined to about 110,000. Now, basic mathematical aptitude tells me that white flight resulted in more housing than people. Its the phenomenon of more housing than people which created the abandonment and decay, even if blacks did move into dwellings eventually, they could not occupy all the dwellings simultaneously (basic logic). The abandoned dwellings often became rental properties for people who lived in the burbs. Hence, blacks who were renters simply moved from one rental to the other. The economic law of supply and demand was at work. White flight meant that there was more supply (of housing) than demand, which depressed property values and rents. With rents so low, landlords did not put much into their properties because it would result in a loss. What happens when you don't keep up your property.....it degrades and decays through entropy.
The only myth at work here is the myth that economic laws of supply and demand were not impacted by white flight. The oversupply of housing that resulted from white flight depressed the value of housing in the city to the degree that it fermented most of the decay that is witnessed.
You're forgetting a few things:
Household sizes have decreased. So with the same number of homes, you can have less people and still have them all occupied.
Many homes were torn down for expressways and housing projects. This is not the same as white flight because people are being forcefully relocated, not choosing to "flee".
The turnover from white to black didn't take place city-wide and all at once. So while you had black flight in areas which had already turned predominently black, you also had areas that were just beginning to turn from white to black. But in all cases, those latter areas stayed at near 100% occupancy through the transition.
If one actually believes that birth “Resets” the race of life by providing those that are born no advantages or disadvantages in the race of life, then such an individual is either lacking education and or integrity.
For people that are color blind, race resets from "black" and "white" to "human". My black employer didn't have an advantage over me because of his race.
Household sizes have decreased. So with the same number of homes, you can have less people and still have them all occupied.
Many homes were torn down for expressways and housing projects. This is not the same as white flight because people are being forcefully relocated, not choosing to "flee".
The turnover from white to black didn't take place city-wide and all at once. So while you had black flight in areas which had already turned predominently black, you also had areas that were just beginning to turn from white to black. But in all cases, those latter areas stayed at near 100% occupancy through the transition.
I gotta tell ya, you're really working hard to rewrite history over there Retroit. I almost responded to your earlier post, but I thought Indentured Servant hit that slow pitch out of the park. Your explanation is so shamelessly thin it's laughable. Let's make it easy for you:
Detroit had 2 million people
It lost 1 million people
50% of the homes and buildings became vacant
There was no mass infill by the remaining residents
White flight led to abandonment
Abandonment led to blight
Flight = Blight. Period.
Saying that something else was responsible defies all logic, common sense, math itself, and this great place called reality where most of us live.
If your neighbors on both sides moved out to Shelby Township, are you going "expand" into their houses? I didn't think so. You also probably wouldn't spend your money repairing those houses, painting their shutters, shingling on new roofs, or cut down overgrown weeds either. Eventually, you'll board up their windows to prevent people from squatting next door as any sensible person would do, but before you know it, your neighborhood starts to look a lot like Detroit. It's not your fault. You maintained your property and shoveled your snow even as more and more of your neighbors fled the neighborhood. I mean, how can anyone blame you? Nobody could expect you to maintain the whole city by yourself, could they? So why are all those people in Shelby Township yelling at you, telling you to "clean up your city"? What do they expect you to do? They talk about how you live like you're an animal. You paid your dues. "Fix it, fix it, fix it!" they SCREAM! Before you know it, there are 3.5 million people pointing their fingers at you. Obviously, it's all your fault the place has gone to hell.
Household sizes have decreased. So with the same number of homes, you can have less people and still have them all occupied.
Many homes were torn down for expressways and housing projects. This is not the same as white flight because people are being forcefully relocated, not choosing to "flee".
The turnover from white to black didn't take place city-wide and all at once. So while you had black flight in areas which had already turned predominently black, you also had areas that were just beginning to turn from white to black. But in all cases, those latter areas stayed at near 100% occupancy through the transition.
1. The decrease in household size is related to the decrease in the number of children women give birth to, which is irrelevent because the children are not renting or buying, but rather, the adults are.
2. Yes this is correct, but we are not talking about that.
What you say does not add up based upon the laws of economics. If demand remained strong for housing in the city of Detriot you would not have seen the price drop in the city for housing over those years. The price point is based upon the interaction of supply and demand (of housing in this instance). A falling price point means that housing was oversupplied. A rising price point means that housing is undersupplied. Why do you think areas that have run out of space, like San Francisco, is so expensive? Its because demand for housing in the area far exceeds the supply. In Detroit, white flight greatly reduced demand and also increased supply, which created a lot of rental properties which generally help to bring an area down as waves of people with no long term investment flow through the properties and the owners do little investment into the properties, simply looking to collect the Section 8 are guarenteed income from poor renters. Rents were low because their was a glut of vacancies and landlords had to lower their rent or standards just to get people to rent. Eventually many landlords just abondoned their properties.
For people that are color blind, race resets from "black" and "white" to "human". My black employer didn't have an advantage over me because of his race.
Life is a continuum. Where one gets handed the baton at birth, in the race of life, is a product of where their parents are in that race of life when they are born. If the parents are behind in that race of life, existing in an the only environment that they could manage after having their opportunites stunted by racism and bigotry, the child will inherit the negative displacement in the race of life. The black child born in the ghetto does not inherit the same position as the child born in a white upper class suburb. The child born in the suburb simply has to emulate the successs of his or her enviornment to become successful, and the parents have all the resources and connections to ensure it, with role models of people who look like them in all aspects of success, well represented to see and touch. The black child growing up in the ghetto does not get to see success to emulate it naturally. He or she does not have the role models that can inspire them and their parents do not have the resources to fill the blanks with, so the children, like most, simply emulate and perpetuate whats around them........and its not limited to what I just said either.
If average household size goes from 4 people to 2 people, the population can drop in half and you could still have 100% occupancy of homes. (I'm not saying that these numbers are factual or that this totally explains what happened in Detroit. I'm using it as an easily understandable example.) Denying that household sizes has fallen "defies all logic, common sense, math itself, and this great place called reality where most of us live."
Children do not buy houses, but they are included in the population. When YOU said that there were "2 million" people in Detroit, that figure does not represent homeowners only, it represents all people -- adults AND CHILDREN.
If 10% of homes are demolished for urban renewal and expressway construction, it is logical to expect that the population can decrease 10% without any abandonment. Again, this is not the sole explanation and I'm not claiming that 10% is a precise figure, but one factor.
Once Detroit was fully developed, the supply of housing was fixed, so there was no oversupply. Demand was not reduced by white flight because whites either sold their homes to blacks or rented them to blacks. Most whites didn't just walk away from homes. The price of homes fell because whites were willing to lose money on their homes in order to sell their homes to move to the suburbs. Home prices and rents fell because blacks were generally poorer than whites and therefore whites couldn't expect as much as if they were selling/renting to whites. As a neighborhood deteriorates, prices drop. This can happen even as occupancy stays at 100%.
If there is any blame or fault to be assigned, as ForStarters seems to think is necessary, it should be upon those who are abandoning an area last, not those who are being displaced earlier on in the process.
Life may be a continuum, but that doesn't mean that blacks and whites are at opposite ends of that spectrum. Some whites are born poor, some blacks are born rich. Some whites are born dumb, some blacks are born smart. Some whites are worse off than their parents, some blacks are better off than their parents. You make it seem as if all whites are handed the world on a silver platter at birth and that blacks don't have equal opportunities because the white world of racism is stacked against them. Where one ends up on that continuum depends on how well one uses their God-given talents and whether or not one listens to all those (black and white racists) who claim that they are predestined at birth to never succeed in life.
If average household size goes from 4 people to 2 people, the population can drop in half and you could still have 100% occupancy of homes. (I'm not saying that these numbers are factual or that this totally explains what happened in Detroit. I'm using it as an easily understandable example.) Denying that household sizes has fallen "defies all logic, common sense, math itself, and this great place called reality where most of us live."
Children do not buy houses, but they are included in the population. When YOU said that there were "2 million" people in Detroit, that figure does not represent homeowners only, it represents all people -- adults AND CHILDREN.
If 10% of homes are demolished for urban renewal and expressway construction, it is logical to expect that the population can decrease 10% without any abandonment. Again, this is not the sole explanation and I'm not claiming that 10% is a precise figure, but one factor.
Once Detroit was fully developed, the supply of housing was fixed, so there was no oversupply. Demand was not reduced by white flight because whites either sold their homes to blacks or rented them to blacks. Most whites didn't just walk away from homes. The price of homes fell because whites were willing to lose money on their homes in order to sell their homes to move to the suburbs. Home prices and rents fell because blacks were generally poorer than whites and therefore whites couldn't expect as much as if they were selling/renting to whites. As a neighborhood deteriorates, prices drop. This can happen even as occupancy stays at 100%.
If there is any blame or fault to be assigned, as ForStarters seems to think is necessary, it should be upon those who are abandoning an area last, not those who are being displaced earlier on in the process.
Life may be a continuum, but that doesn't mean that blacks and whites are at opposite ends of that spectrum. Some whites are born poor, some blacks are born rich. Some whites are born dumb, some blacks are born smart. Some whites are worse off than their parents, some blacks are better off than their parents. You make it seem as if all whites are handed the world on a silver platter at birth and that blacks don't have equal opportunities because the white world of racism is stacked against them. Where one ends up on that continuum depends on how well one uses their God-given talents and whether or not one listens to all those (black and white racists) who claim that they are predestined at birth to never succeed in life.
I'm not laying blame, and if I was it certainly wouldn't be on those who stayed. This is simple cause and effect. If all the left-handed people moved out of my building, the building would would fail financially, and eventually it would be shuttered. After a while, it would fall into disrepair and begin to decay. After several years, it would become blighted with cracked windows, a crumbling facade, and trash accumulating at its edges. The cause is the left-handed people leaving, the blight is the result.
I thought I would really strike a nerve with you when I tried to show you what it's like for hundreds of thousands of Detroiters who stayed. They did the right things, maintained their properties, paid their taxes, but couldn't change the fact that others exited their neighborhoods years before. If you've seen Gran Turino with Clint Eastwood, you will understand that he is one of those "holdouts" who stayed as his neighborhood crumbled around him. Is it his fault? Likewise, is it the fault of 90% of Detroiters who stayed? They simply took care of what they could. I suppose if you were in their position you'd understand. Seeing as you live in Eastpointe, don't assume such is not possible.
When people come on here and say "Fix it!" Look at what they did to their city. "Detroit is nothing but ruins!" You are yelling at the old man and woman who took care of their home, and even cut the grass of the blighted house next door for the past 30 years. It makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with people. Can't they comprehend that if even 25% of the houses on their street became abandoned, along with the factory down the street, that their neighborhood would look like ****? How is this not obvious?
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