Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm an architect and am curious what the pitfalls and downsides are to buying up some of the vacant and derelict property in Detroit. You see this all over the place in the listings -- property for sale for pennies. I've read other posts about how there's no future for this type of land, there's no way the investment can turn positive and ultimately the land will be a dumping ground for trash and other derelict activities. Here's the thing-- that's the point! I'm not interested in making a profit here. I'm interested in using my own personal capital to design and build something that's experimental, that will experiment with ways of helping the community, that is design and community first instead of investment-first. What I'm interested in learning here are things like tax implications. How bad is the tax situation on these properties? What things am I missing? What challenges are there? Contamination? How open is the city to "experimental" land use? you see urban farming catching on, and you see DIY pop-up art installations all over the place -- have these been cleared by the city? Or does the city just turn a blind eye to it?
Thanks for any info. Again, please refrain from comments of "it's a bad investment and you're crazy for putting money into it"
For many properties, they were foreclosed on during the 2009 recession or some time afterward and thus have multiple years of back taxes. So what looks like a cheap property can catch people off guard if they don't do proper research.
The actual cost of taxes is pretty comparable to other large cities, but of course the problem is Detroit's level of city services are pretty subpar for the amount of taxes you're paying. If you've heard about the bankruptcy at all, this is one of the problems they're trying to rectify.
Contamination is typically a problem limited to obvious former industrial areas. Otherwise most residential areas are fine.
Experimental land use is sort of a case by case situation. Urban farming is regulated through zoning and it depends on what area on what you can and can't do. Though most small neighborhood gardens are okay.
Most art installations I've see are temporary. The Heidelberg Project is probably the only exception. Otherwise the city/owner of the property has to approve of it.
Don't be surprised if your experiment burns to the ground. You'll be viewed as an unwelcomed outsider by many.
That right? Fox News told you that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect19
I'm an architect and am curious what the pitfalls and downsides are to buying up some of the vacant and derelict property in Detroit. You see this all over the place in the listings -- property for sale for pennies. I've read other posts about how there's no future for this type of land, there's no way the investment can turn positive and ultimately the land will be a dumping ground for trash and other derelict activities. Here's the thing-- that's the point! I'm not interested in making a profit here. I'm interested in using my own personal capital to design and build something that's experimental, that will experiment with ways of helping the community, that is design and community first instead of investment-first. What I'm interested in learning here are things like tax implications. How bad is the tax situation on these properties? What things am I missing? What challenges are there? Contamination? How open is the city to "experimental" land use? you see urban farming catching on, and you see DIY pop-up art installations all over the place -- have these been cleared by the city? Or does the city just turn a blind eye to it?
Thanks for any info. Again, please refrain from comments of "it's a bad investment and you're crazy for putting money into it"
Detroit neighborhoods are not contaminated unless they are amidst manufacturing. Location is everything. You might check with urban pioneers, like farmers, who have done their homework and are already involved. Cheaper properties, even though otherwise desirable, will be targets for vandalism. Consider the fringes of areas due for expansion and where others are likely to invest at some point.
Though not an expert, I would consider viable areas which are ripe for future expansion - perhaps like this area near downtown with its urban prairie.
For many properties, they were foreclosed on during the 2009 recession or some time afterward and thus have multiple years of back taxes. So what looks like a cheap property can catch people off guard if they don't do proper research.
Much to the chagrin of land owners and homeowners, Wayne County is pretty prompt when following the state-mandated tax foreclosure process. Therefore, most properties with delinquent taxes will have a maximum of three years of back taxes owing. Still, that can be considerable. Water bills can go back many, many years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian
Contamination is typically a problem limited to obvious former industrial areas. Otherwise most residential areas are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ
Detroit neighborhoods are not contaminated unless they are amidst manufacturing.
Not so. Nearly all land in the urbanized Detroit area (not just in Detroit) is contaminated to some degree. The most prevalent contamination is lead contamination--due to the burning of leaded gasoline in cars, which resulted in airborne deposition of lead. So, a parcel of land may not be contaminated to the level requiring remediation--but you need to be aware of contamination levels depending on the particular use proposed for the property. For example, when I set up a community garden I had the soil tested for a variety of contaminants. Lead turned out to be the most significant contaminant, but in our case it was below established threshold levels. (This was at a more suburban location, not within the city.)
If a community garden is within your sights, you would just need to test the soil and take appropriate steps to mitigate any potential hazard. Many urban gardens use raised beds and fill them with soil trucked in from another location.
The biggest concern about buying and holding any vacant property in the city is the need to constantly monitor it. You'd ideally need someone local who could be the eyes and ears for the property. The location will greatly influence the potential for dumping, but don't discount how problematic that could be. (And if someone dumps on your property, the City will fine YOU!) Fencing the property would help, but you'd still need to be wary about someone stealing the fencing--especially if it's metal.
If you can find a location where there is community involvement (SW Detroit in the Hispanic area comes to mind), you could probably limit the downsides of whatever endeavor you pursue. Instead of buying land, however, you should consider trying to "adopt" one of the smaller neighborhood parks which Detroit fails to maintain. If you have a good plan, that may be your best chance for success while limiting your personal liability.
If you do end up buying land, there is a way to get the land tax exempt if you set up a nonprofit corporation to hold the title (or have an existing nonprofit hold title). I've talked with a number of people who were interested in buying lots in Detroit with that in mind, but I haven't heard whether anyone I talked to actually went ahead and did so.
Much to the chagrin of land owners and homeowners, Wayne County is pretty prompt when following the state-mandated tax foreclosure process. Therefore, most properties with delinquent taxes will have a maximum of three years of back taxes owing. Still, that can be considerable. Water bills can go back many, many years.
Not so. Nearly all land in the urbanized Detroit area (not just in Detroit) is contaminated to some degree. The most prevalent contamination is lead contamination--due to the burning of leaded gasoline in cars, which resulted in airborne deposition of lead. So, a parcel of land may not be contaminated to the level requiring remediation--but you need to be aware of contamination levels depending on the particular use proposed for the property. For example, when I set up a community garden I had the soil tested for a variety of contaminants. Lead turned out to be the most significant contaminant, but in our case it was below established threshold levels. (This was at a more suburban location, not within the city.)
If a community garden is within your sights, you would just need to test the soil and take appropriate steps to mitigate any potential hazard. Many urban gardens use raised beds and fill them with soil trucked in from another location.
The biggest concern about buying and holding any vacant property in the city is the need to constantly monitor it. You'd ideally need someone local who could be the eyes and ears for the property. The location will greatly influence the potential for dumping, but don't discount how problematic that could be. (And if someone dumps on your property, the City will fine YOU!) Fencing the property would help, but you'd still need to be wary about someone stealing the fencing--especially if it's metal.
If you can find a location where there is community involvement (SW Detroit in the Hispanic area comes to mind), you could probably limit the downsides of whatever endeavor you pursue. Instead of buying land, however, you should consider trying to "adopt" one of the smaller neighborhood parks which Detroit fails to maintain. If you have a good plan, that may be your best chance for success while limiting your personal liability.
If you do end up buying land, there is a way to get the land tax exempt if you set up a nonprofit corporation to hold the title (or have an existing nonprofit hold title). I've talked with a number of people who were interested in buying lots in Detroit with that in mind, but I haven't heard whether anyone I talked to actually went ahead and did so.
I see you have a disclaimer, but seriously, you think the neighborhood soils are contaminated to any problematic degree whatsoever?
And you had a community garden - even in the suburbs? Kudos.
I'm interested in using my own personal capital to design and build something that's experimental, that will experiment with ways of helping the community, that is design and community first instead of investment-first.
Some thoughts: yes contamination is going to happen in any city. All soil in Chicago for example is contaminated...period. I was just curious since you hear about all of this urban farming.
Vandalism, arson, etc. -- it's true it's a problem, but it's a problem in any city, no? I suppose the lack of neighbors watching over is what really makes this a big issue -- this is actually something that projects should seek to address (in my opinion).
Thank you for all of the comments on back taxes, etc. This is very helpful and something i'll need to look into. The Maximum 3 years of back taxes is interesting and something I didn't know about.
Someone mentioned "adopting" parks...this is really interesting!
Retroit -- to answer your question, I'm not really sure exactly what I have in mind right now. The possibilities are endless, but to try to reign that in, I'm trying to grasp the costs. I'm open to being COMPLETELY experimental. What if a lot had a solar and wind array on it. If electricity prices (or simply electricity is out b/c the power company has shut off the street due to so little demand), then what if there was a lot that provided a minimal amount for electricity for a couple houses on the street? Obviously it woudn't be a lot of power generation, but maybe enough to keep hot water tanks running. Last year I was driving around and saw the ever typical lot where a bunch of people were gathered around a barrel of fire. What if the lot had a warming hut? Simple as that. To get people through the winter.
What if a lot just had a bathing facility? Now, there are a ton of problems/challenges with this, but there's a thing in san fran. where this bus with showers in it, goes around and offers homeless people a free shower and place to clean up. They argue, you can't get a job if you look and smell like a homeless person.
What if a bunch of lots scattered throughout became a system of mini-parks, ampi theaters, or art installation. I don't personally like the aesthetics of the heidelberg project, but it's presence cant be ignored. What if there were heidelberg's all over the place. To the people who point to the recent arson of it...this is true and very sad. But look at the flip side, for 17 years it did not burn, and it did something great. That's 17 years that it could've been seen as a target, but it never actually was.
I don't claim to have an answer or a solution to a problem just yet...just ideas. Lots of challenges to any of these ideas. But at the right price, the risk of throwing time/money/effort into something experimental decreases. Right now I'm trying to grasp how much risk decrease this is. There will be losses in this endeavor for sure, but the idea is to minimize how much. I have no desire to build condos of flip homes here. I want Detroit to stay Detroit, but to be better at it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
